Spuffy #4 - General Discussion

[Miss Kitty]

You're welcome 🙂 I discovered this because of TimeTravellingBunny, so thanks to her 😀 I'll post the link I mentionned previously when my 15 posts will be there.

And Scott Allie, even if I don't always agree with his opinion, has done a beautiful description of the idea (which surprises me in a very good way 🙂 ), I don't remember if I posted it before 😕 :

The line that really stands out here is when she tells him "you're my dark place." In a way, Spike has always played that bad boy role in the triangle. What do you think he still offers the series in that position?

Different people certainly have different ideas about the relationship between Buffy and Spike, but to me this thing about him being her dark place feels very consistent. That seems to be a very unchanging aspect of their relationship. She could share things with him that she couldn't share with anybody else in part because she knew she wouldn't be judged. And it's not just that he's "the bad boy." There's a real level of understanding between the two of them.

I think that Joss has his influence 😛 I heard that Joss and Scott have discussed about the Buffy & Spike relationship some times ago... I think that's the reason why he understands Spuffy better now (and maybe that fans letters have their influence 🙂 ).


And I know that it's stupid, but I like the idea of Joss saying that "he"s buffy", because he clearly said that he has a preference for Spike some times ago 😛 Go Joss ! 😛 😀

No, seriously, it makes me glad to read what he thinks about the "dark place" term ; he sees it as something really important, and giving this to Spuffy is a pretty gift 🙂 I love this part : "one of the best things that can happen to a person is when they realize that they're not alone" ♥

 

[Tranquillity]

Thoughts On Buffy and Spike in the latest comic (#38) anyone.

Spike sure does get beat down alot in this issue (not just physically either) and Buffy. . . Buffy Buffy Buffy - love her to bits but man, even after seeing the destruction that she and Angel have unleashed she still looks at him with doe-eyed infatuation the minute he walks into the hellmouth!

 

[zobothehobo]

I just read all of the Spuffy part of the comics on Wed. and I have to say, I see what everyone else has been frustrated about. I'm really annoyed about the way they've handled this and I completely agree.. it bothers me that although she and Angel have created so much destruction and problems, she still has doe eyes for him when he comes back at the end of this issue. It's like "what is wrong with you woman?!"

 

[prophecygrrl]

Ick, I actually didn't like #38 very much. I was hoping for a lot more Spuffy interaction!

Spoilers for those who haven't read #38 yet!:


Except I really do like that you see Spike jump into action whenever Buffy's hurt. And when she tells him to "hold" the Master, he does it without a second thought. I love that they have that unspoken trust and bond in battle. And I love also that he's not too jealous or ungracious, not the way Angel is when Spike first shows up. (All immature and suspicious about Spike's "agenda", ugh. Hypocritical much?)

Meh, I wouldn't take Buffy's expression on the last page of #38 too seriously. For one, I think she's really, really confused right now, and that's not necessarily her fault. The universe and Twilight/Twangel DID kinda spin her around, even if a part of her was complicit in that. That and no one's really snapped her out of the "Angel is perfect" thing, except for Spike for a few panels in #37. And guess who she's pummeling on the cover of #39? Twangel. Girl's getting her priorities back. 😉

BTW, can someone give me a head's up on how to hide spoilers? With the fancy blacked out 'highlight to see' font? Thanks very muchly! 😀

 

[zobothehobo]

(All immature and suspicious about Spike's "agenda", ugh. Hypocritical much?)

Oh my god, I know! that pissed me off. I was like "Oh Angel, you never change. You're the same asshole you were back then."

BTW, can someone give me a head's up on how to hide spoilers? With the fancy blacked out 'highlight to see' font? Thanks very muchly! 😀

Spoiler

spoiler text[/ spoiler] without the spaces

 

[Miss Kitty]

Buffy. . . Buffy Buffy Buffy - love her to bits but man, even after seeing the destruction that she and Angel have unleashed she still looks at him with doe-eyed infatuation the minute he walks into the hellmouth!

And doesn't it seem the "bestest" parody ever ? 😛 Personnaly, I think it's more and more obvious 😛

As prophecygrrl said, I don't take it serious me too. Really 🙂 At the beggining, her attitudes were weird, now, it's not only weird, it's just a huge parody of her idealization. I don't think she's totally herself, there's still something. When we see the context of what's happening, of what they did, of what Angel made as 'Twangel', it's just not the Buffy we know who is reacting there.


Concerning Spuffy, I understand why there's not a lot of interractions. There's a lot of stuff they need to fix, it probably will be long and it can't be fix in the context of what's happening. Their relationship and their reunion are an important part, it has to be done correctly. So the interractions are less present for the moment, but I think (and I hope) that it will come later (more probably in season 9).
For the moment, they have their dynamic (trust... etc), interractions will come later.

 

[prophecygrrl]

And doesn't it seem the "bestest" parody ever ? 😛 Personnaly, I think it's more and more obvious 😛

As prophecygrrl said, I don't take it serious me too. Really 🙂 At the beggining, her attitudes were weird, now, it's not only weird, it's just a huge parody of her idealization. I don't think she's totally herself, there's still something. When we see the context of what's happening, of what they did, of what Angel made as 'Twangel', it's just not the Buffy we know who is reacting there.


Concerning Spuffy, I understand why there's not a lot of interractions. There's a lot of stuff they need to fix, it probably will be long and it can't be fix in the context of what's happening. Their relationship and their reunion are an important part, it has to be done correctly. So the interractions are less present for the moment, but I think (and I hope) that it will come later (more probably in season 9).
For the moment, they have their dynamic (trust... etc), interractions will come later.

I love that they seem to be parodying the Bangel. It's SO OTT idealized love, I've even seen some Bangels act a little annoyed by it! I just love the contrast of Spuffy and Bangel. Spuffy's as realistic as ever in Season Eight. One of the few things I like about the comics!

I am a little irritated about the reunion though, especially when you hear Scott Allie say that "they just didn't have time" to make a reasonable Spike/Buffy reunion. Sigh. They had a WHOLE ISSUE of Bangel spacesex! They couldn't make time for a decent reunion??

 

[Tranquillity]

I've seen it said often in the discussions of this issue that Spike is completely pointless and that his inclusion was just fan service.

In this issue Spike spends the whole issue (#38) being beat down:

• he gets hit by the Master
• He gets burnt by Willow
• his Bug crew start to questions his credentials
• Giles reminds us that he can’t keep up with Buffy and that, in short his usefulness is extremely limited, he is powerless
• he gets metaphorically beaten by Angel’s return and Buffy’s instant transference of allegiance
• and he gets literally whacked as Angel knocks him into the sunshine (which, in turn, burns him – yay, more pain!)

So my question is after all this, what are the chances that will Spike stand up and do something drastic or dramatic next issue? Any chance he will turn on Buffy? Maybe he will break the seed? His actions next issue may explain why he is not on the #40 cover. And what if he does nothing next issue (except keep doing what he's been doing up to this point), does that make him pointless to the story? Would you be happy with a Spike who was simply bought in to be the convienient bringer of infomation and little more?

 

[Miss Kitty]

I know it's frustrating, but honestly, I don't know if it's not a better way than if we get Buffy who is affected during two pictures by their reunion and who becomes three seconds later all about business (which, in the context, is an obligation) ; because in that case, we have a reaction, but it's done in an expeditive way, and I think that no one of the Spuffy fans would love this. And, anyway, I think it fits with the situation between Buffy & Spike for the moment (because he doesn't call her... etc).

Now, I have 15 posts, so I can post links, yay ^^ Look at this post by TimeTravellingBunny : http://buffyforums.net/forums/showpost.php?p=520506&postcount=5

She expresses exactly what I think. Look at the end of her post, she posted this on her LJ : http://boot-the-grime.livejournal.com/1380.html

That's why I think that we can't have a perfect and lovely reunion between Buffy & Spike ; they have to talk about a lot of stuff. But it's really not a bad thing 😀

Link about Joss & the "dark place" term :

http://pmnewton.blogspot.com/2010/08...ark-place.html


Oh and I don't know if it has been posted before and I don't know who has done this (really sorry 😱 ), but there's an interesting parallel there (Buffy/Xander in #02 and Buffy/Spike in #37) :

 

[prophecygrrl]

@Tranquility- you mean Spike just in #38, right? Or in all of Season Eight?

Ok, so I'm constantly wavering back and forth on Spike in Season Eight. Here are all my feelings, jumbled and conflicting as they are.

For one, I love that he talks back to Buffy. Everyone else treats her like the General or the Slayer. But with Spike, she's just Buffy, making mistakes but still capable and kickass enough to correct them. Love that part. I wasn't convinced by their interaction in #36 because well, there really isn't that much. But #37 solidified that for me.

And then #38 rolls around. And I hate to sound like the super-pessimistic Spuffy out there, but I'm terrified that Spike will turn out to be evil again. I got that same feeling of dread at the end of 'End of Days' when he's lurking the shadows with the First, but thankfully that turned out to be a mislead. I honestly think that if Spike turns out to be evil again it will be a COLOSSAL mistake on Joss's part. But what the Bug starts to say before the general kills him

"His Majesty" is just another worker drone for a queen bee. &!#$ probably has a whole drone ar--

kind of freaks me out. I don't even know what the Bug is trying to say, but it casts enough doubt on Spike's intentions to arouse my suspicions.

And anyone else notice that Spike's smoking an awful lot? I don't know if it's just to give him something to do, but Spike cut down on his smoking a lot once he got his soul. He's smoking in almost every single panel he's in this issue. Whether or not this is an indication of his good vs. evil status or just an arbitrary choice by Georges Jeanty, I don't know.

Also, whenever the Scoobies are convening, Spike's turned away and left out of the picture. Check Willow, Buffy, and Giles discussing the Master. Spike's standing away from them, smoking, on looking at them out of the corner of his eye and with an almost irritated expression on his face. Couple that with the dialogue in one of the panels

BUFFY (talking about the Master): He's a monster and he killed me.
WILLOW: Grudge validated. Move on.

and I just don't know if Spike's position in that panel and the dialogue are intentional. Spike's also in the Master's line. He's also a monster, by the universe's definition of demon.

And then Buffy and Giles talking outside the Hellmouth. Spike's isolated again. Smoking again. If there's supposed to be more meaning to his placement and actions, this really worries me.

But at the same time, I really don't think Season Eight is going to end up all about Spike. Joss and Co. has made it clear that it's supposed to be all about Twilight and Buffy and Angel. I'm probably putting way too much thought into Spike's role in Season Eight. I'm just a little oversensitive when it comes to my bb, lol. 😀

And also, I really really don't want him to be the bad guy. 😱

 

[zobothehobo]

Spike cut down on smoking because James wanted him to. In the comics, that wasn't really an obstacle... that's probably why he was smoking more. I don't think there was an intention to correlate the smoking less with getting his soul...

But yeah, I've got the sinking feeling he might be evil too. And that would just SUCK. I

 

[Spikefan31]

Spike evil? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

They can't do that!!!!!!!! They CAN'T!!!!!! Angel is the bad guy!!!!!!!!! I don't want Spike to be called New Moon or Eclipse or Breaking Dawn!!!!!!!!!! Spike is GOOD!!!!!!!!!! He has a SOUL!!!!!! If they make him evil and take all the blame of Mr. Broody I'll write angry hate mail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And never ever EVER forgive Joss Whedon!!!!!!!!!!!!! His epic sacrifice in Chosen will be all for nothing!!!!!!!! NOTHING, I tell you!!!!!!!!!! ARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡










Just kidding. Mostly. Sorta. 😉

 

[Miss Kitty]

Oh I understand, but I really don't think that you should be worried by it ! *hugs*

Spike was smoking a lot when Buffy was with Riley (remember the tree), maybe it's just because of this story with Twangel 😛 lol. I'm kidding (almost 😛 ).

For one, I love that he talks back to Buffy. Everyone else treats her like the General or the Slayer. But with Spike, she's just Buffy, making mistakes but still capable and kickass enough to correct them.

Totally agree ♥

 

[Tranquillity]

Yeah, I don't want Spike to go BAD again either - I really don't think he could...but i do think that he may do something unpopular for the greater good. Like say, break the seed or something like that...

 

[Spikefan31]

pfft! I don't care if he breaks the seed. They never should've introduced it in the first place.

 

[zobothehobo]

See, if he breaks the seed... that's it for Willow. And as much as I love her, I feel like that could be good. But that's it for her. So I don't know how I feel about it. Willow without her magic... I don't know if she could adjust.

 

[Spikefan31]

Well, she didn't always have magic. She was once a computer nerd. So, yeah, I agree, that could be good for her.

 

[prophecygrrl]

Spike cut down on smoking because James wanted him to. In the comics, that wasn't really an obstacle... that's probably why he was smoking more. I don't think there was an intention to correlate the smoking less with getting his soul...

But yeah, I've got the sinking feeling he might be evil too. And that would just SUCK. I

Oh...I thought the not smoking as much thing was just a subtle "I've got a soul and I care more about my choices" thing. Lol, whoops. It just felt like he was doing it a LOT in this issue...like they were trying to make a point.

Thanks for the info! Aw @ James wanting not to smoke as much. He's so cute. 😛

 

[StarSlayer]

zobothehobo agrees: Yeah, he was in the process of quitting and hated the fake cigarettes they made him smoke and he didn't want the kids who thought Spike was cool to think smoking was too.

Oh my God, that makes him extra cute and sweet 😀

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Firstly, I've been insanely busy with RL stuff, and I miss you all terribly. It's good to be back. 🙂

Secondly, I can't even believe I haven't read the latest issue yet. What is wrong with me?! I need to go pick it up tomorrow. So, I guess I don't really have much to contribute to the conversation, other than that it's been really interesting reading everyone's comments on it so far.

I'm upset about the theory of Spike being brought back for fan service. How disapointing. I hope he has an important future role to play. His character deserves it.

Thirdly, I got chills when I read this line;

You're my dark place, Spike.

This line is interesting on so, so many levels....what do all of you think she meant?