Spuffy #4 - General Discussion

[faeriegrrl27]

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

Least favorite? I can't say I find them too compelling in Season 2. Except in School Hard and Becoming. Once he becomes a part of the gang, though, I like it all.

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

Don't actually read a lot of fic. If I did, I'd say probably s6... that's when I've always paid most attention to him.


3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

Nope and nope. I like Spuffy the way they are. I'm sure other people can make it work, but I know I can't. I'm actually afraid to read BtVS fic because I'm afraid it might be bad and that'd ruin it for me. I'm a scaredy cat.

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

I think he pretty much glossed over a lot of that in FFL. I think he told her he was kind of a dork and his heart got crushed by a girl; she told him that he was "beneath her." And that's why he was upset when Dru found him. I think that stuff was important to what he told her so she could understand the change. I don't think he went into his poetry, though. Or how the people mocked him. And I think he probably told her more in s7. It's a nice idea.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement.

I'm anti s8... I find comic books hard to follow and I think the show needed to stay a show. But mostly it's because I'm bad at comic books. 🙂

 

[zobothehobo]

I haven't answered the questions... and I will but right now I just have tell you all something. This is a quote from my sister (a self proclaimed Bangel)

I'm a Bangel fan, and even I can tell you that Bangel was more destructive than Spuffy... like really?

I think she sees what I've been seeing for a while. That Spuffy helped both of the characters to grow in a way Bangel didn't. In fact, Bangel stunted both characters. The destruction of Bangel doesn't come with physical pain or "mind games," it comes with stunting the character growth. I'm really getting to her. I'm proud.

 

[maryperk]

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

Hmmm, that's a hard one. I think the ones where they seem to deliberately hurt each other are my least favorite. Season 4, Harsh Light of Day where Spike taunts Buffy about Parker, Season 5, at the end of the Bronze scene, Season 5, Crush, Season 6, when she beats him up, Season 6, the bathroom scene.

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

Depends on what season I'm writing/reading.

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

Oh yeah, I've written Spike/Buffy fanfic. Probably way too much by some people's standards.

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

Not very much, I'm afraid.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement.

I have avoided the comics thus far. So, I'm unsure. Right now, I have enough ideas based on the tv series that I don't need any more.

 

[zobothehobo]

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?
Honestly, I'm not sure I have a least favorite scene other than the bathroom scene. Well actually there's in Crush when Buffy says "The only chance you had with me what when I was chained up." And at the end of Fool For Love when Buffy says "You're beneath me." It's just kind of heartbreaking to watch... I love Spike more than Buffy so I sympathize with him more. But those two are stretches of the term "least favorite."

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?
I don't read a lot of fanfic and I've never written it... but I try to picture Spike the way he looked closest to the time the fic takes place. Like if it's during the show... I imagine him as the time closest to when we saw him last... and if it's after Angel season 5, I picture him as he is in Angel season 5. Although to be honest, I don't see THAT much a of a difference. It's just the wardrobe that's sorta different.

3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

Nope. And maybe... I don't know. I'm not a very good writer... and while I know the characters well... it's very probable that if I were to write fan fic, I would write the best characteristics of the character and not the worsts ones... or really... write the character as a reflection of my image of them. For example, Spike would be obviously superior to everyone else. Angel would be obviously inferior to everyone else. Angel would have every bad quality of his character, ad pretty much none of the good qualities and Spike would be the opposite (not that any fic I may or may not write would have Angel in it... but you get the picture). So I don't really want to write any fic because I know that it would be very OOC...

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?
Pretty much nothing. As stated by some other people, I don't think Spike told Buffy the truth in Fool For Love about William. And honestly, even if he did... We saw William and obviously you can tell from my avatar I love him to pieces... but we didn't get to know a lot about William from Fool For Love. All we knew after that was that he was a bad poet in love with a girl who didn't want him named Cecily and he got made fun of a lot. That doesn't tell us much. So even if Spike did tell Buffy the truth in Fool For Love (and I don't really think he did especially since that part was shown to us with no narration by Spike and the rest of the flashbacks in the episode were shown with narration), she wouldn't know very much.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement?
Honestly, I'm not sure. I think we'll see in 39 in a few days. Right now, I'm not sure.

 

[StarSlayer]

So, I heard something very interesting today that made me think of Spuffy 🙂

I was listening to the radio while driving and they randomly started talking about how women (yet, it could apply to anyone) have misconceived notions of finding Mr. Right, based on what this relationship expert said. The one thing that really got my attention was when they said women who are looking for "the one" will never be satisfied because they'll always be expecting something better. Even if they are in a relationship and believe the person is "the one," the relationship most likely won't work out if they are not compatible. However, women who look for someone as a companion and are compatible with, they're more likely to stay and be happy in their relationship because the person then becomes the one.

That "becoming the one" immediately made me think of Spuffy and how Buffy becomes the one for Spike and how Spike becomes the one for Buffy, especially by the end of s7 😀 And yes. I thought of Spuffy before myself when it came to relationship advice, lol. Don't judge me 😉

 

[Goldilocks]

1. What's your least favourite Spike/Buffy scene from each season?

The one in "Crush" with Drusilla. I hate that one, hate how Buffy treats him.

2. Taking into account that Spike is essentially ageless, which season's James Marsters do you picture when reading/writing Spike/Buffy fanfiction?

Hmm.. Hard one. I'd say season 6 or 7.


3. Have you written any Spike/Buffy fanfiction? Are you planning to?

Have not written anything, but I planned doing it, because I have some ideas 😀

4. How much do you think Buffy knows about William?

He tells her something about him in Fool For Love, but I wouldn't say that she knows everything.

5. Spike in Season 8 - Pretty window dressing/fan service or important contributor to plot advancement.

I'm not a big fan of the comics, to be honest :s

 

[zobothehobo]

I think that's a great way of looking at it. Spike was a companion... someone Buffy could lean on and count on. And through that, he became the one. Likewise, Buffy was a companion. Someone Spike could fight along side, someone he could be there for and loyal to (which are all things Spike needs). And through that, she became the one.

 

[Tranquillity]

Starslayer wrote:

I was listening to the radio while driving and they randomly started talking about how women (yet, it could apply to anyone) have misconceived notions of finding Mr. Right, based on what this relationship expert said. The one thing that really got my attention was when they said women who are looking for "the one" will never be satisfied because they'll always be expecting something better. Even if they are in a relationship and believe the person is "the one," the relationship most likely won't work out if they are not compatible. However, women who look for someone as a companion and are compatible with, they're more likely to stay and be happy in their relationship because the person then becomes the one.

Zobothehobo wrote:

I think that's a great way of looking at it. Spike was a companion... someone Buffy could lean on and count on. And through that, he became the one. Likewise, Buffy was a companion. Someone Spike could fight along side, someone he could be there for and loyal to (which are all things Spike needs). And through that, she became the one.

Trouble is though, I think that Buffy looks on Angel as "the One" or at the very least "The One that Got Away" and she carries around this idealised version of their romance and love that reality will never live up to. I thought that Buffy had gone a long way to resolving this in Chosen but now, after reading the comics, I'm not so sure.

 

[zobothehobo]

Trouble is though, I think that Buffy looks on Angel as "the One" or at the very least "The One that Got Away" and she carries around this idealised version of their romance and love that reality will never live up to. I thought that Buffy had gone a long way to resolving this in Chosen but now, after reading the comics, I'm not so sure.

I have faith she'll figure it out. Or everyone around her will be like "uh, look Buffy... Angel is kind of bad news." Maybe she won't realize it for a very long time... but Spike will always be the one she can count on. Angel won't. That is shown to us very clearly by the mere fact Twangel exists. Maybe Buffy doesn't get it, but that doesn't mean Spike's not the one.

 

[StarSlayer]

Trouble is though, I think that Buffy looks on Angel as "the One" or at the very least "The One that Got Away" and she carries around this idealised version of their romance and love that reality will never live up to. I thought that Buffy had gone a long way to resolving this in Chosen but now, after reading the comics, I'm not so sure.

That's the thing. When it comes to Angel, I think Bangels have the idea (more so than Buffy) that he's the one for Buffy and Buffy is the one for Angel because they were first loves, "forever loves," and all that crap :tongue3:. And why wouldn't they. They love their ship.

I just think that it's not that simple, especially for a long-lasting relationship. I like the idea of someone becoming the one, as I saw with Spuffy. I never saw that with Buffy and Angel. I only saw their relationship get worse overtime, despite the idea that they were "the one" for each other.

Based on the TV show, I definitely believe by the end of the series, Buffy got over this idea of Angel being the one. "Oh, thank God." 😉 Based on the comics, I've just read the last few issues. Yet, based on that, I don't even think she thinks Angel's the one. She still loves him, but I'm not convinced she's fully and wholeheartedly in love with him. She keeps thinking about Spike too much.

 

[zobothehobo]

I honestly don't think we can judge if Buffy thinks Angel's the one until we've seen her deal with Angel not under the influence of Twilight or Twilight's powers. Which if I understand correctly (and I'm really not sure I do) is not what we've seen so far. When they had their love affair in the sky, she was under the influence of Twilight's powers... or it was predestined or some crap like that I don't really get. But we haven't seen JUST BUFFY deal with Angel yet. I don't think we can say anything until at least after issue 39.

 

[Litheran]

I think so far it's business as usual; they're leaving things ambiguous. Giving the Bangels the sky shag; but leaving doubt as to how in control they were. And they give us Spuffies Buffy's day dreams; along with the cold shoulder introduction. It makes for crappy storytelling and has the unwanted addition of making Buffy look like a wanton hussy. All I have to say is this.

Angel might have taken her to the top of the world; but Spike's the only one who can make her see stars.

 

[prophecygrrl]

Has anyone read issue #39 of Season Eight yet? I haven't read the actual thing cause, well, the closest comic book store is a bit out of the way, but I've read several great summaries of it.

What do you think will happen with Spuffy in Season 9? Is there an opportunity for Spuffy?

Spoiler

Since Spike is apparently gone on his steampunk ship to kill a demon that got away. And I'm pretty sure the Bangel ship has sailed in canon after Twangel murdered Giles.

And I'm actually pretty moved by one of Spike's lines in the end after Buffy smashes the seed. 😀 Then again, I'm pretty much always moved when Spike is being super respectful of Buffy. Love him. :3
From a summary by Tranquility (thanks, by the way!):

"Spike order's his ship be put into reverse to avoid being sucked into "hell" with the retreating demons.
Bug one says, "Your friends, your majesty, they did-"
Spike cuts him off, "She. She did it. Slayer, you did it." He is about to land and see who need help when he spies Willow's vagina demon fleeing the scene so he decides he better stop that first and flies off after it."

 

[Spikefan31]

Well, I sure hope Buffy never ends up with Angel after #39. Even if he was being possessed by some Twilight entity. What he did was inexcusable and unforgivable imo. I really don't like Angel anymore. They've butchered his character and I don't see any way to redeem him after making him fall so far. Not Fade Away ended in a good way, with a message of not giving up and fighting the good fight no matter what, and season 8 has destroyed everything that Angel the series stood for.

Okay, so that rant isn't really Spuffy-related, but hopefully Buffy will lean more towards Spike now. She's crazy if she doesn't.

 

[zobothehobo]

May I just say I didn't like Angel before issue 39. Honestly, I feel the direction of Ats ruined him for me. He just got too... negative. It pissed me off. Also I didn't particularly like Giles so the events of issue 39 didn't bother me nearly as much as they bother other people.

Now, I definitely think there is room for Spuffy in season 9. But I really think it depends on what happens to everyone's power now. It's unclear what will happen to the slayers and the vampires... also vampires with souls... That being said, if they make Bangel happen in season 9, I'm going to be more than pissed. So far, the comics haven't done anything to really PISS me off. Even issue 39 didn't do that. But if Bangel happens in season 9 after the events of issue 39, they will have ruined Buffy's character completely and I will not stand for the fall of my hero.

 

[StarSlayer]

What do you think will happen with Spuffy in Season 9? Is there an opportunity for Spuffy?

There's always an opportunity for Spuffy, lol! 😀 Yet, you know Bangels are still going to be rooting for their ship despite what happened because Angel was possessed. And that is a fair point, but Angel wouldn't have been possessed in the first place if he didn't choose the Twilight path. How many passes is he going to get? Spike didn't choose to be the First's bitch in s7. He really was controlled by the First, which is why Buffy and the rest of the Scoobies mind you, were able to forgive what he did to the girls in the basement. I really hope Buffy finally wises up and realizes Angel is not right for her. They only bring each other heartache and despair. And this is suppose to be true love? Nope, sorry. Don't believe it.

With that said, I really hope Angel finds his redemption, I really do. I want Cordy to come back and set him straight. She always knew how to do that, which made them my second favorite ship. So, while Angel gets back on track, Buffy and Spike can discuss everything that happened since he died in the Hellmouth and finally be happy together, lol 😀 But, of course, Joss won't make it that easy. Damn it 😉

 

[zobothehobo]

One thing that really bugs me about the "Angel was possessed" cop-out was just pointed out by StarSlayer but I want to spend a bit more time on it. How many innocent people died when Angel WASN'T possessed? How many slayers died? How much did he put Buffy and friends through with his whole "masked evil guy named Twilight" thing? He CHOOSE all of that. He was talked into doing all of that by talking animals. He shouldn't just not be forgiven for what happened in issue 39... he shouldn't be forgiven for all of it. He choose to be their big bad... He choose to kill all those innocent people and terrorize Buffy and friends for a whole year.

If Bangel happens in season 9, Buffy will be saying she didn't care. She can't shrug it off and say it was Angelus... because it wasn't. And she knew when she met him and they had their love affair in the sky, it was Angel with Twilight's powers.. not Twilight. Buffy will have gone WAY lower than she did in season 6 with Spike and the Bangel relationship will have DESTROYED her.

 

[StarSlayer]

If Bangel happens in season 9, Buffy will be saying she didn't care. She can't shrug it off and say it was Angelus... because it wasn't. And she knew when she met him and they had their love affair in the sky, it was Angel with Twilight's powers.. not Twilight. Buffy will have gone WAY lower than she did in season 6 with Spike and the Bangel relationship will have DESTROYED her.

That's another thing. Buffy was really her own worst enemy in s6. She was depressed, lost, unmotivated, and all that. Yet, I never saw her relationship with Spike as "destroying" her, although some people see it that way. Granted, she did use him. But, she was able to wise up and stop herself before things got worse. Although it was hard because, as she said, she still wanted Spike, she knew it wasn't right to be with him if she didn't see herself loving him (at that time) although he loved her. It wasn't fair to Spike.

Now, Bangel, totally different, especially after the events of #39. Their "love" actually destroys them because it brings out the worse in them IMO. Plus, it destroys the people around them. If Buffy still wants to be with Angel after all this Twilight crap that he choose to do, I think she will reach a new low, sad to say.

 

[Tranquillity]

Angel killing Giles is a huge problem for Bangel. HUGE. I've only seen a couple of posters using the "But he was possessed' defense. Most people realise that this is a massive hurdle for Buffy and Angel to try to get over and that Angle is completely responsible for his actions. I've seen a lot of people saying they would be disgusted if Buffy ever got back together with Angel now and most amazingly, I've seen people who previously hated Spike and Spuffy saying that they would prefer to see Buffy with Spike now. I really want to read #40 now. Spike will apparently be in it - not sure if it is with Buffy or not.

 

[prophecygrrl]

That's another thing. Buffy was really her own worst enemy in s6. She was depressed, lost, unmotivated, and all that. Yet, I never saw her relationship with Spike as "destroying" her, although some people see it that way. Granted, she did use him. But, she was able to wise up and stop herself before things got worse. Although it was hard because, as she said, she still wanted Spike, she knew it wasn't right to be with him if she didn't see herself loving him (at that time) although he loved her. It wasn't fair to Spike.

Now, Bangel, totally different, especially after the events of #39. Their "love" actually destroys them because it brings out the worse in them IMO. Plus, it destroys the people around them. If Buffy still wants to be with Angel after all this Twilight crap that he choose to do, I think she will reach a new low, sad to say.

I agree! 😀

I didn't see the relationship in S6 as "destroying her" either, necessarily. Yes, it was destructive, but the relationship itself wasn't destroying her. Spike's influence wasn't destroying her. I think it was mostly self-destructive, and very understandable for someone who was severely depressed at the time. However, she still started and continued that relationship out of her volition. She wasn't in her usual state of mind, but she was still in control enough to stop. Yup, our Buffy's a survivor that way. 🙂

Twangel is another story. I will be SO disappointed if Bangel happens, and I really, really don't think Joss would go there. Partly cause if he did, you know over half of the fandom would be up in arms over it! 😉 But Buffy's mental state is not a disability to her anymore, besides the glowhypnol (I mean..."influence") of Twilight, she's clearly in full control of herself and who she wants to get involved with. Angel, possessed or not, KILLED Giles. He willingly PUT himself in that situation with Twilight. He accepted the mission when he wasn't possessed. Spike's bout with the First is entirely different, and I'd say that even the Angel/Angelus thing of Season 2 is entirely different because Angel was not responsible for that the same way Buffy wasn't responsible for that. No one knew something like THAT would happen if they had sex, for goodness sake! But Angel accepted a mission to lead a violent countermovement against Buffy and the Slayers- he knew what he was getting into some bad s%$t.

And GILES. GILES, OKAY. WHAT?! 🙁🙁🙁