Spuffy #6 - General Discussion

[Doppelgang]

So the suggestion is that he would have become good at some point, fall in love with Buffy and decided to get his soul back, regardless of the chip? I don't see much evidence to support this claim. By Tabula Rasa he'd already had the chip a long time, it started to have a big effect on him back in season 5 culminating in the episode crush when he chose Buffy over Drusilla. But is there any evidence pre-chip that he wanted to do anything other than kill Buffy? Just before the chip he tried to kill her in harsh light of day for example.

For me it doesn't take away from his feelings for Buffy or what he did later to get his soul back that it was reliant on the chip, for all good things in my view have their origin in random occurences out of our control. Goodness isn't in people as a destiny, it is a personal CHOICE based on the events that happen in your life. Spike chose and embraced goodness based on the context of having a chip. It doesn't take away from his goodness thereby because all we can do is make decisions based on the context we are faced with. He chose to get his soul back and burden himself with a moral conscience for all that he had done in the past. He didn't magically become good, he wasn't good all along but he CHOSE the path of seeking forgiveness and redemption.

Thats my take on the influence of the chip.

 

[Tranquillity]

Been a while since we've had some questions...

1. Ever been moved to tears by a Spike/Buffy scene?

2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?

3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?

Answer away!

 

[sisterofmercy]

1. Have you ever been moved to tears by a Buffy scene?

Yeah, it was in Afterlife when Spike sees Buffy for the first time since she came back from the dead. It's like they see each other properly for the first time and there's genuine understanding between them. The way he looks at her with such awe and love is just beautiful. 🙂 Plus then there's his whole '147 days' thing, which makes me well up a bit.

2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?

Not very. Spike always gets annoyed and defensive when the topic of Angel is broguth up, and Buffy is still quite anti-vampire so wouldn't really care much to hear about Drusilla. Maybe Cecilly though, it would show another side to him.

3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?

Ha, I've never really understood that tbh. I guess if there ever was a time when that would have happened, it would have been in S6. I think after that season there was something deeper between them, and he'd never want to hurt her.

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?

There's too many to choose from! I love the scene when he teams up with Buffy in S2 and tells Joyce they're in a band. Any scene when they're bickering is always good.

 

[prophecygrrl]

1. Ever been moved to tears by a Spike/Buffy scene?

I've been touched by a lot of their scenes and no doubt cried at a lot of them, but the ones I distinctly remember sobbing at was the speech in 'Touched' and the flaming hands in 'Chosen'. 🙁 I actually cried a little bit in FFL when Buffy told Spike he was beneath her. I don't think at that point she was obligated to be nice to him (they were both kind of jerks to each other the whole night and they're still pretty much enemies, more or less), but it was harsh. Seeing her throw the money at him and seeing him cry...Spike crying always makes me cry. I don't know what's wrong with me. haha.

2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?

I think it's pretty likely. In my shiny happy post-series Spuffy world, they talk about everything and they know each other's pasts, and they don't have problems with it. Though I do like some jealous!Spike and jealous!Buffy from time to time. 😀

3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?

Totally! I don't really like or dislike 'claiming' in fics (only when it's done too much, that's when I start to dislike it), but just biting seems like something Buffy would be into. She was totally biting him in that daily from 'Dead Things'!

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?

Randy and Joan!!

And I basically love any scene where they're snarking at each other. Their banter is one of my favorite parts of Spuffy. 🙂

 

[EvilBuffy]

I read something about Spike that made me smile and I thought this would be the best place to share. It comes from an article about a Joss Whedon interview.

Joss also spoke about Spike, who he felt ultimately became the most fully developed character in the Whedonverse, coming from the lowest rung in Season Six (when he forced himself on Buffy) to someone who literally earned his own soul, as opposed to Angel, "who had a soul thrust upon him for a hundred years and moped about it."

Here's the linkage.

 

[StarSlayer]

1. Ever been moved to tears by a Spike/Buffy scene?

Um, yes, lol! The last scene in "Intervention," when Spike first saw Buffy coming down the stairs in "After Life," when Buffy says she believes in Spike in "Never Leave Me," the end of "Showtime," "Touched," their scene together in "End of Days," and their last scene in "Chosen." To name a few. 🙂

2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?

I think in time they could discuss their past relationships with each other. But I think it would be harder for Spike to listen about Buffy's relationship with Angel, although he already knows a lot about what happened between them. Yet, I can't help but think Buffy may have a hard time listening to Spike talk about his relationship with Drusilla based on "Something Blue." "Hey! You think I don't live with the shadow of Drusilla over my head?" 😀

3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?

Definitely! She's into biting him, so I think she'd be into Spike biting her.

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?

I love their moments in "Something Blue." And their scenes together in "Life Serial" still crack me up, especially with the kitten poker! 😀

 

[Tranquillity]

1. Ever been moved to tears by a Spike/Buffy scene?

The church scene in beneath you never fails to cause tears to stream down my face. And of course, theri final scene in Chosen always makes me cry too. I do cry in others sometimes, depending on my mood but the two I mentioned always always always cause a tearful responce.

2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?

My first responce was 'not likely at all' but then I thought about it a bit more and I reckon that Spike would probably be more than willing to discuss Dru but Buffy would probably not discuss Angel or Riley much. She just seems to be a bit more private with matters of the heart.

3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?

No, I don't think she would. I don't know why, I just don't. It seems weird for a Slayer to let a vampire bite her even if it is for sexy purposes.

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?

Their 'date' in Life Serial is very funny. They are hilarious in Something Blue too. Buffy and Spike don't do "funny" together all that much do they? (Other than the two mentioned earlier Becoming part 2 and Tabula Rasa) I can't really think of any more.

 

[zobothehobo]

1. Ever been moved to tears by a Spike/Buffy scene?
I cry at pretty much everything. So yes. Um... Off the top of my head the scenes I cry every time I see them.. the Beneath You church scene, the final Chosen scene, the bathroom scene (not a good cry, but still cry), sometimes (as in a lot of times) I cry at the backsteps scene in FFL, sometimes (as in often) I cry at the Intervention kiss, the Touched speech always gets me, in End of Days when Spike says "were you there with me" I cry... I cry a lot.

2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?
*sigh* you know I'd like to say likely but honestly, I've got no clue. I think Dru might come up in conversation as Spike reflecting... but if Angel or Riley were to ever come up, it would be in a fight.

3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?
You know, I'm really surprised they didn't do that in season 6. I don't think she would now. I feel like if that was ever going to happen it would be season 6... just because of the degrading nature of their relationship and feeding off of her, but not killing her, would remind her on some level of Riley and his whores and it would be degrading.

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?
That is not a fair question. I do not do these definitive statements of superlatives. I don't know! *cries* haha

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

1. What is your favorite unintentionally shippy moment? (you know, an unthinking or accidental admission of how close they are?)

In Chosen when Spike yells Buffy's name (Not "Slayer" or "Pet" or "Love" - just Buffy) and Buffy drops what she's doing, turns, responds, and runs to his side as if by instinct.

2. What is your favourite Spike vs. Buffy fight?

Probably the one in Smashed.

I also really like their fight in Harsh Light of Day.

3. Did anyone convert you to Spike/Buffy, or did you start shipping it on your own? Have you converted anyone to Spike/Buffy?

No one converted me. But originally I was never a shipper. It was when I started getting involved in the online fandom that I was really inspired by the dedication of the Spuffy fans and started getting more involved.

4. Was Spike ever really a Scooby? Will he be one in season 9?

No, I don't think so. He was Buffy's best friend, her right-hand man, but he was never a Scooby. Spike is the Other. He can never truly fit in. Maybe he is now. I don't know. I think in order for him to be a real Scooby he would need to be accepted by both Giles and Xander.

5. Do you think we'll ever get a canonical (in text) clarification as to whether or not Buffy meant her "I love you", or do you think Joss will keep us guessing for ever and ever and ever?

No, sadly, I don't think we will. In Joss's eyes, that time is over, and it's time to move on to other things. I hope, though, that we do - I'd like to see a conversation between Spike and Buffy about that. I like to believe it's happened off-panel.

It could happen like this;

Spike: So. About that day in Sunnydale...what I said, I didn't mean it, you know. [Looks down in embarrassment]

Buffy: [surprised] What?

Spike: About you not loving me. I know you did. I just said it because I needed you to go. I couldn't have you take the fall with me.

[They look at each other.Both smile sadly.]

Buffy: 'Bout time you said something.

Spike: [still looking at the floor] I still love you, you know.

Buffy: Good. Because I meant what I said.

 

[prophecygrrl]

Spike: So. About that day in Sunnydale...what I said, I didn't mean it, you know. [Looks down in embarrassment]

Buffy: [surprised] What?

Spike: About you not loving me. I know you did. I just said it because I needed you to go. I couldn't have you take the fall with me.

[They look at each other.Both smile sadly.]

Buffy: 'Bout time you said something.

Spike: [still looking at the floor] I still love you, you know.

Buffy: Good. Because I meant what I said.

I love this! I never know what to think about Spuffy's canon future when it comes to Joss's reasoning, but I love this scenario too.

 

[StarSlayer]

1. What is your favorite unintentionally shippy moment? (you know, an unthinking or accidental admission of how close they are?)

In Chosen when Spike yells Buffy's name (Not "Slayer" or "Pet" or "Love" - just Buffy) and Buffy drops what she's doing, turns, responds, and runs to his side as if by instinct.

Fangirl gush time! 😀 I LOVE that moment! 😀

Question though: Does Spike really yell Buffy's name? I may be over-analyzing, lol, but compared to how Buffy then yells out "Spike" in response (and even when Spike has previously yelled out to Buffy), I always felt like he doesn't really yell out her name here. For me, it sounds like he says "Buffy" with urgency, yet with some calmness, and that gets Buffy's attention. It's really hard to describe, but it's like you can still sense the connection between them. In the midst of the fighting, Buffy can still hear Spike simply saying her name, and he's not really screaming it either.

 

[Tranquillity]

StarSlayer agrees: Their scene in "Him" when Buffy jumps Spike is pretty funny

Him! Yes! That is hilarious - how could I have forgotten that one 🙂

 

[prophecygrrl]

I am getting antsy for Seasonal Spuffy. It's starting on April 1st I believe, and I have been devouring fanfic at a ridiculous rate lately...can't wait for some new Spuffy every day! 😀

 

[xaphania]

I am getting antsy for Seasonal Spuffy. It's starting on April 1st I believe, and I have been devouring fanfic at a ridiculous rate lately...can't wait for some new Spuffy every day! 😀

I'm getting nervous... I still haven't written or made anything for SS and my posting day is 8th April! 😱

Anyone got anything, any missing moment or any plot bunny they want to see written as a fic? I'm desperate!

 

[white avenger]

1. Ever been moved to tears by a Spike/Buffy scene?

Not actually moved to tears, but the look that Spike and Buffy shared at the end of "Showtime," then them walking away with her supporting him was about as close as I ever got.


2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?

They have already, on several occasions, though not in any great detail, and I really don't think that they should. Spike knows already that Angel was Buffy's first significant love, and she knows the same thing about him ans Dru. I don't see any real reason to discuss what they already knew.


3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?

I seriously doubt it. Buffy's experiences with vampires and biting most likely aren't among her favorite. The Master killed her, Angel ALMOST killed her (despite how "erotic" some other people might see that scene, all that I saw was fear in Buffy's eyes that Angel, once he started, wouldn't be able to stop) and she wound up in thrall, at least temporarily, to Dracula, none of which could have left any sort of fond memories for her. If Buffy ever did allow Spike to bite her, I think that it would have been right after his rescue in "Showtime." She needed him back in fighting condition as quickly as possible.

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?

When Spike grabbed the rocket launcher away from her in "Him," and then she chased him, trying to get it back. For some reason, that scene always makes me laugh.


5. Do you think we'll ever get a canonical (in text) clarification as to whether or not Buffy meant her "I love you", or do you think Joss will keep us guessing for ever and ever and ever?

I seriously doubt that we'll ever see that moment addressed again. Joss has said on several occasions that "when she said it, she meant it," and I think that, as far as he's concerned, that pretty much settles the discussion.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

I'm getting nervous... I still haven't written or made anything for SS and my posting day is 8th April! 😱

Anyone got anything, any missing moment or any plot bunny they want to see written as a fic? I'm desperate!

There are interesting challenges on Bloodshedverse, maybe they'll help you.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


1. Ever been moved to tears by a Spike/Buffy scene?

Yes! Many times. The biggest tearjerker is the final scene in "Intervention". Honorable mentions: ""Chosen", "Beneath You", "Touched", "Dead Things".

2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?

It could work as a comedic interlude, but I don't see it working as a dramatic scene.

3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?

Nope. Even if Buffy allows that, Spike will never bite her. At least until he has his soul.

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?

All their scenes in "Something Blue".

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Fangirl gush time! 😀 I LOVE that moment! 😀

Question though: Does Spike really yell Buffy's name? I may be over-analyzing, lol, but compared to how Buffy then yells out "Spike" in response (and even when Spike has previously yelled out to Buffy), I always felt like he doesn't really yell out her name here. For me, it sounds like he says "Buffy" with urgency, yet with some calmness, and that gets Buffy's attention. It's really hard to describe, but it's like you can still sense the connection between them. In the midst of the fighting, Buffy can still hear Spike simply saying her name, and he's not really screaming it either.

*fangirls along with you*

I totally get what you're saying! When he yells "Buffy" it's more like a shout, like "Hey come here!". But I like to think it's his unconscious choice to use her name, and that has meaning. Like it's become second nature, and he wouldn't call her anyone else.

For so long, Spike objectified Buffy in a big way (and she returned the favor in Season 6) - calling her Pet, Slayer, and at his most objectifying, Goldilocks - basically, every other name than her own. He put her on a pedestal by giving her Titles. He saw her not as the girl she so desperaratly wanted to be seen as, but as the Slayer.

Accepting Buffy's name suggests a true respect on Spike's part and also an acceptance of her true self. Her calling him "William" in As You Were suggests this same thing.

For me, that change - that new-found respect for her - comes in Intervention when he says this;

Spike: 'Cause Buffy - the other, not so pleasant Buffy - anything happened to Dawn, it'd destroy her.

The Bot (who he believed he was talking too) would have known who he was referring to if he had said "Slayer." But instead he chose to call her by her real name.

*Hearts Spike and Buffy*

---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------


1. Ever been moved to tears by a Spike/Buffy scene?

Yes! Many times. I always tear up in Beneath You and in Chosen.

2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?

Not likely. I think they understand that their relationship transcends that. Both know what each other has been through - because they went through it together. Neither likes to re-hash old wounds, anyway. Spike and Buffy live in the now, in the future, not the past.

I think also that Buffy is sensitive to Spike's distaste at her bringing up Angel, and Spike understands the pain that Angel caused her. Why bring it up?

3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?


No. Not during Season 6, because it would have shown, and Buffy was experiencing so such shame due to her relationship with Spike. But I do believe that she allowed him to tie her up. Which is a similar situation to the biting because in both she is powerless.

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?

All their scenes in "Something Blue" (I second that, Elena!)

 

[prophecygrrl]

*fangirls along with you*

I totally get what you're saying! When he yells "Buffy" it's more like a shout, like "Hey come here!". But I like to think it's his unconscious choice to use her name, and that has meaning. Like it's become second nature, and he wouldn't call her anyone else.

For so long, Spike objectified Buffy in a big way (and she returned the favor in Season 6) - calling her Pet, Slayer, and at his most objectifying, Goldilocks - basically, every other name than her own. He put her on a pedestal by giving her Titles. He saw her not as the girl she so desperaratly wanted to be seen as, but as the Slayer.

Accepting Buffy's name suggests a true respect on Spike's part and also an acceptance of her true self. Her calling him "William" in As You Were suggests this same thing.

For me, that change - that new-found respect for her - comes in Intervention when he says this;

Spike: 'Cause Buffy - the other, not so pleasant Buffy - anything happened to Dawn, it'd destroy her.

The Bot (who he believed he was talking too) would have known who he was referring to if he had said "Slayer." But instead he chose to call her by her real name.

*Hearts Spike and Buffy*

WHOA OKAY THERE this is brilliant. I have always had the similar feelings on Spuffy and their thing with the names, thank you for putting that into cogent sentences for me!!

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

WHOA OKAY THERE this is brilliant. I have always had the similar feelings on Spuffy and their thing with the names, thank you for putting that into cogent sentences for me!!

He, thanks! I'm feeling particularly thoughtful today. 😉

 

[Gum Gnome33]

1. Ever been moved to tears by a Spike/Buffy scene?
During their very last onscreen scene together, yes. Gah. Everytime. In Hell's Bells when they have that bittersweet encounter and they are truly relating to each other on a new level, tears definitely well up in my eyes. Spike's speech in Touched. The traditional stuff 🙂

2. How likely is it that Buffy and Spike would discuss their Ex's and other past relationships with one another?
I really don't know. I don't think Buffy was ever much for bringing her past into her present. But Spike loves to dwell and never lets anything go, so I'm sure Angel and Riley would come up a whole bunch, especially during times when he's feeling particularly insecure!


3. Biting is often a feature in fanfiction love scenes. What do you think, would Buffy ever allow Spike to bite her during sex?
I don't really see it happening. Maybe if they were together for many years? It could be like a 20th anniversary present. LOL.

4. The funniest Spike and Buffy moment?
Hard to choose one! I LOVE the scene in Him, which others have mentioned. It's a strange one, but maybe in the Real Me when Buffy comes to Spike's crypt to find out where Harmony's lair is and she repeatedly punches him in the nose. I think at that point she knows on some level that she's attracted to him, and she hates that, so she takes it out on his nose. I find it sort of endearing in a twisted way!

5. Do you think we'll ever get a canonical (in text) clarification as to whether or not Buffy meant her "I love you", or do you think Joss will keep us guessing for ever and ever and ever?
I think Joss is done with that. I think that *he* thinks that the moment he starts ironing things out neatly for us between these two is the moment they lose their magic. Which is a bummer for sure, but always leaves the anticipation levels high!