Just to continue.
Whatever the case may be though, something other than the chip started him down the road to get a soul...which makes a chip restriction look sorta weak in comparison. This is the same chip he was trying to get Adam to cut out of his skull in season 4 but it's not the same Spike.
Oh don't get me wrong, it's definitely more than the chip going on. Love was definitely the thin that set him down that path in my opinion. If he really wanted to, he could have got rid of the chip, especially if he was resourceful enough to get a curse free soul.
His motives completely change even if he holds on to some of the wicked behavior. Basically what I'm saying is the want to change in the first place is a huge change for Spike, one that I admire.
I admire it too. I still question why he wanted to change. The whole soul no soul thing creates a paradox because if he got a soul simply for moral reasons then that means he's already both intellectually and emotionally morally conscious, so why does one need a soul then?
From a blood thirsty creature that would make Buffy's throat his chalice and drink deep to a thing with guilt that strives to be a person worth loving and that could love her 'safely'. Spike changed bucket loads, in my opinion before he reacquired his soul. I believe that loved caused this change.
Ah I didn't read this part, but yes I agree. But Spike does actually say he does it because it's what he thinks Buffy wants. He also said he's not really one for self-reflection. It's great that he is willing to do all this for her but i think figuring out what's important to you as an individual is also important. Wonderfully selfless, Spike has always done what he thinks other would want: turning his Mum, destroying the world for Dru, getting a soul for Buffy. That's why his development on Ats was my favourite because he was finding his way in terms of what he, himself believed in, looking towards himself for redemption.
I agree that its important that he simply just love as well, I just felt the need to differentiate it from the Stockholm syndrome that I suggested, though that might have started the ball rolling (I'm not sure in earnest how Stockholm syndrome works, is it falling in love with your captors or just agreeing with them?)
It's difficult because loyalty is part of Spike's persona anyway. He attaches and connects quite naturally. We see from Harmony that vampires can form attachments to humans, which is hardly surprising is some ways because they were once humans and some I closely linked to their human personas.
You did bring an important question into my noggin about William walking away from Buffy like Angel did, if the cost of physical intimacy/complete happiness with Buffy, would be Spike on the loose.
Yes, Spike isn't half the psychotic misery making monster Angelus is, at least not a chipped Spike with behavior modified...for that matter I just theorized that Spike had changed awhole lot!
Like I said, don't get me wrong Spike did change, I just believe a lot of that change pertained to Buffy, probably more so than with Angel who is a very internal character. Spike tends to look outward as Angel looks inward, both of those MOs have mixed consequences, but I don't think one is better than the other. I just tend to relate to Angel more.
That Spike also went on a quest to get a soul because he was so grieved by what he had done to Buffy, he did the change-arro. If William loves Buffy as much as Spike did, would he risk reverting back to the other thing that tried to hurt her so? That vampire so desperate to 'evolve' for love sake that it inspired the change?
I just don't think Spike could revert. One of the reasons I think Angel has this problem is because he's so wonderfully internal and generally f**ked up, which is why I like him so much. lol.
This has been alot of fun and a good topic! I hope it continues
Me too. Spike and Angel are such compelling characters and their relationships with Buffy highlight their fascinating differences.
Oh as as for the title, duh, silly me, I get it now, sorry lol and erm, Angel needs a therapist, Cordy's right, he's crazy.
