Spuffy

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Ok, I know I'm not supposed to be in here right now, but I had to post this:

Moscow watcher
emailed Scott Allie regarding Spuffy and he responded. Read her LJ post on it here:

moscow_watcher: Scott Allie's Letter

It's quite interesting what he had to say.
Here's the quoted text:
Hey Elena—As Moscow Watcher, I thought you were one of my harsher critics, no? Anyway, I don't assume all the Spike fans hate me—I hope I'm totally irrelevant to the majority of them. Honest, that is the proper attitude to an editor.

I read most of your review, but this is what puzzles me in fandom—in this email to me, you thank me "for the promise that Buffy/Spike relationship won't be trampled down completely." And you seem pretty sincere in that. But you assume that the reasons are strictly commercial. In my mind, it'd be very cynical of us if that were true, and very cynical of you to assume that of us, unless we've given you really good reason to think that. But my puzzlement is this—some of his dedicated readers and fans assume the worst about Joss, and about all of us working with him. But have you ever considered that Joss treats Angel and Spike the way he does because he thinks it's truthful? That Angel and Buffy have a certain kind of relationship, and that Spike and Buffy have another kind, two different relationships that evolve over time, but come from some basis in human experience. Why assume, as you seem to, that the creative choices Joss makes come from commercial choices made to sell more comics; or as a few seem to think, that it stems from cruelty, or from a lack of understanding of his own characters? Maybe this is just the story Joss wants to tell. If you've stuck with him and his characters this long, aren't you open to that possibility?

That's the thing I understand the least in fandom—assuming bad motivation in people you don't know. The things that've been said about me, sheesh. (I'm reminded of the woman who told me I mustn't be a father if I thought Angel was more concerned about Buffy than Connor.) But it's worse when it's Joss—you guys owe me nothing, I've never done anything to earn your respect. But Joss? Does he really deserve to be reduced to such petty agendas?

The thing is, I don't think fans mean it the way it comes across. I think the internet has bred a kind of dialogue among fans where it seems perfectly acceptable, reasonable, and normal to infer all these motivations, weaknesses, and other failings on strangers. And it's not. It's bizarre, it's unfair, and it's judgmental. And it's onesided, because you know Joss isn't sitting around thinking about why Elena does her job the way she does.

Certainly not limited to Buffy fandom—I see Hellboy fans assuming the worst of Mike Mignola all the time. But when I read your email, I thought, Is this really the same Moscow Watcher I think it is ...? Yeah, you're willing to say we write comics that make no sense because we know and care so little about story that we'll try anything to sell more copies. You're willing to say that I'll say anything on a message board to trick you into buying more comics—but you're polite and gracious enough in the rest of the email that I couldn't connect you with the general tone of the message board posts I've seen from you. And then I read your review, and thought, Oh yeah, I guess that's her ...

I can fully appreciate your disappointment in Season 8, a reader's disappointment in any story. If you've ever been involved in the shipper wars, as they're called, then it's gotta be disappointing to see Angel in a significant role that Spike just as easily could have filled. If you find the story preposterous, out of character, then we've truly let you down there. But don't assume the worst about the people working on this stuff. We are all dedicated, hard working people who love the characters and want to get the best, truest stories out there. And we think we've got it here—but of course not everyone will agree. It's never been my intention to mock and insult Spuffy fans, even if I made some carelessly sarcastic comments before I understood the real rift in the fandom. I haven't seen you guys being mocked, but I believe what you tell me. And you shouldn't be indirectly or generally mocked and insulted for your tastes, which is what I think has gone on, and what I've been guilty of. But I think you should twice about using the anonymity of message boards and chatrooms to mock and insult the people doing the work.

I hope enough of the Spuffy fans stick around through the end of the thing, if only because I'll be curious to hear what you think about it. And that's not meant as a carrot—Joss has said that Spike will appear, although I think your paraphrasing of him in your review is not entirely accurate—THAT certainly doesn't happen... ; ) So you know Spike will be in Buffy's proximity. As with all of this, I just hope what happens rings true with you, true to their characters. That's what we're shooting for, in our imperfect, human ways.

Peace,
Scott

So, it looks like Spike is showing up. *does happy dance*

Thoughts?
 
"Being in Buffy's proximity" is no assurance that they will ever meet face to face or that they will have any sort of interaction whatsoever. Spike could just appear for a couple of panels to pull Andrew out of a quicksand pit and remind him that Buffy isn't to know that he has returned until Spike, himself, decides that the time is right. Mr Allie's right, that isn't a carrot, but it could most certainly be a misdirection. As I've said before, unless they can have at least one good scene together, I would just as soon have Spike not appear at all. I don't want him reduced to being simply a walk on character.
 
I'm really happy Scott tackled the issue the way he did. The sheer amount of crap that guy gets is astounding. The fact that he remains polite and patient with the fandom is even more staggering. I agree with him too, I get that people are upset about issue 33 but the level of cynism and genuine nastiness that has been spread around the fandom has been a disgrace.

It really makes me happy to have not been around when the show aired.

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

Also, I just realised what thread this is.

My bad guys!
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
Right there with ya :D
white avenger
white avenger
Don't worry, Miss K, as my Adopt-A-Bangel adoptee, you're welcome here anytime. Think of it as part of your theropy.
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
Give up the pretense and come back to the light!
X
xaphania
Because this is clearly where you belong! :P
I
InsaneMystic
because even with a banner that makes me answer "erm... no!?", home is where your heart is. :D
Joan the Vampire Slayer agrees: Yeah, but I can't really tell what's going on. Do you think it's a flashback?

I have seen some people say that it is a flashback - maily because of the different colouring of the panel compared to the others around it and some people who must have truely excellent eye sight swear they can read "Then" as the caption. (it looks like a black squiggle to me). Other people say it is not a flashback because Buffy seems to be wearing the same clothes as she was in #33 and the fact that Buffy and Spike never fought a really huge monster with horns as they are in the panel. So I don't really know what to think. I hope it's not a flashback but I won't mind if it is (if that makes sense) Any Spike is better than no Spike. Unless he's in cahoots with Twangel. Then I'd be really miffed.
 
I've been looking through my files, and, while I have quite a few of what I consider to be excellent Spuffy fan fictions, plus a few Fuffy stories, and even a couple of Bangels, most of the sites from which I downloaded them are now defunct, so I have no way of directing anyone else to the stories. Vampire's Kiss, Darkest Before The Dawn, and several others are, apparently, lost forever with all of their contents.
 
I've been looking through my files, and, while I have quite a few of what I consider to be excellent Spuffy fan fictions, plus a few Fuffy stories, and even a couple of Bangels, most of the sites from which I downloaded them are now defunct, so I have no way of directing anyone else to the stories. Vampire's Kiss, Darkest Before The Dawn, and several others are, apparently, lost forever with all of their contents.

Sad. Well, there's still LJ, the Spuffy Realm, The Crypt, Elysian Fields, and The Bloodshedverse, to name a few.
 
And you can use the wayback machine to access old websites, if you have the URLs.

I'm so late to fandom that if the wayback machine didn't exist, I'd have missed out on a lot of good stuff.

Internet Archive: Wayback Machine

You just need to put the URL in and it'll hopefully find an archived version of the page. It doesn't always work, but 90% of the time it will. *loves the wayback machine*

And, there's always seeking_spike to ask for forgotten or lost fics - everyone's very helpful.

ETA: Out of interest, WA, what are the old fics you have? Because so often there will be oldfics that sound really good asked about on seeking_spike, or the find-a-fic forum on TSR, that can't be found via the wayback machine and that no one has saved.
 
I don't think it's necessarily cynical to assume commercial motivations when you're looking at something they have to sell. it's just realism. I don't think it even has to be meant in a negative way. It's not like there's any way around it in our culture. Everything's commercial. It's annoying, but it's just the way it is now.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
you mean, about the AR?
Well, this isn't exactly Spuffy-related exclusively, but in part it is!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0EJf19JOz0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0EJf19JOz0[/ame]
All you James fans will enjoy this, I promise. 😉
 
James commented on Spuffy recently:

What do you think of Joss Whedon's comment that "Buffy was in love with Spike the moment their hands clasped" in the finale?
Yeah, I believe that. Only then was he a true hero, only then did he truly sacrifice himself for other people and only then did he truly deserve her.

Read the rest of the Q&A here: James Marsters A
 
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