Update Staff Decision

[Joyce Summers]

Okay I'll admit I have not read half or even a quarter of the the drama in this thread regardless whether what is being said is right or wrong- I just didn't look, because I just wanted to post saying that I back up Buffy and the other mods' decision here. It couldn't have been a simple swooping one and I doubt any banning was done lightly, and I do believe it was the only way to move forward and attempt to start fresh. I'll admit while I have spoken to some of the banned members in the past I was not overly close to anyone so I don't think I can ever be personally offended by the loss (I'll admit one of the members I was closer to was Kean due to the fact we joined on the same day (along with PV) so I'm more upset over THAT loss of her and Lyri than any of the recent ones), but regardless I trust the mods' judgement and decisions and just hope things do get back to the way they were around here.

 

[Mesektet Ra]

Athena...it's not fact, it's opinion, and you continuously call it fact. Also, if I'm picking out every negative thing you say you're doing the same so taking me to task for it just doesn't make sense.

And I'm cool with YC's banning if there's a reason for it, but it's not just myself or Seraphim that are saying she was never really a bad person, it's been numerous other people, too. We've been through this. Now I'm just bored.

Also, I feel the need to state that I find it depressing that everytime I log into the boards I'm dealing with new drama that pops up. Not that it really has anything to do with me specifically, but it saddens me. I'm kind of teetering on the edge of just saying 'screw this' because, and I hate to say it, I've got more important shit to deal with right now. [/sidenote]

 

[Spiral]

Athena...it's not fact, it's opinion, and you continuously call it fact. Also, if I'm picking out every negative thing you say you're doing the same so taking me to task for it just doesn't make sense.

And I'm cool with YC's banning if there's a reason for it, but it's not just myself or Seraphim that are saying she was never really a bad person, it's been numerous other people, too. We've been through this. Now I'm just bored.

then move along and we'll be just fine 😉

 

[Mesektet Ra]

Or you could do the same and we'd be ducky. But it seems we're alike the respect that we can't keep our mouths shut when it comes to things we care about, and that's a trait I have to commend you on.

 

[Lou]

Before we start bordering on slander and libel here, YellowCrayon never said anything about stabbing anyone.

 

[Spiral]

Before we start bordering on slander and libel here, YellowCrayon never said anything about stabbing anyone.

i didnt say SHE said that. I said it was one of the many terrible things being said about Buffy OFF the board BY "members" of the board. I know YC didnt say it. It was said by another member on FB about BUFFY in regards to what was going ON the board.

like i said, if any of you had any real idea what was going on and the treatment buffy was receiving on AND off the board...you'd be a little less quick to jump on Seraphim's (or his wife) jock and realize that there was a REAL PROBLEM with the treatment of Buffy, her staff and other anonymous victims. the fact that she was being slandered and THREATENED on a social networking site BY a member of this board should tell you something about how deep it ran but i dont see ANYONE condemning THAT.

---------- Post added at 11:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------

Seraphim disagrees: Uh, yeah, can you quote me one instance where YC approved of what was going on or made remotely similar comments about the administration? Didn't think so. Notice I'm not defending the folks who made threatening type remarks on Facebook.

uh yeah...can you do better than replying via the agree/disagree option? LOL!

I think Faith and other mods have clearly addressed your continuous need for an explanation on why your wife isnt here anymore although the fact is they dont OWE you anything in the way of an explanation.

she's gone and that's that. if you dont like it, then join her...OFF the board. It should be obvious that the staff is united in its position on the handling of the matter and its done so why are you continuously asking about it? youve been given an explanation and if its that serious for you then you COULD go to PMs to ask them.

however as it has been noted and observed by myself and others (including staff) the only thing you seem to be good at around here IS appearing only when something involving your wife happens oh and talking down to Buffy and Faith or to try to leave as many negative rep marks as you can on a post.

 

[Mozzymandias]

EVERYONE just stop, both sides are taking the others bait and we are just going round in circles. Athena, I know I have no power at all, but seriously you're not helping the situation for anyone I feel including Buffy and the team. Some of the members here are trying to talk everything down yet you're still responding to everything thrown at you and thus furthering the problem. Put yourself in Athena's position people, she's bound to be pissed. People have mistreated her friend you'd react the same way about any one of your friends, which you are doing. People are pissed about the banning of people who are their friends, I get that and I'm sure others do but arguing isn't the way forward because you're both just gonna carry on taking the bait put out for you and it will not get resolved. So can both 'sides' just stop. Anything said will not change the outcome of what has happened already.

 

[Summers Blood]

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

This is how this thread is making me feel!

This decision by the staff was meant to be a way to resolves the boards problems, not a way for us all to carry on bitching and having a go at each other!

I don't condone the way anyone is speaking to each other!

Seraphim's opinions where not put across nicely and I found them offensive, but Athena I don't think your comments are helping either. I do agree with some of the things that you've said but quite frankly I wouldn't give the members you're arguing with the time of day (no offence).

At the end of the day we ALL have our own opinions on what's happened, but they've happened so that we can move forward and come together as a board again!

It's crap what's happened to Buffy, the staff and some members here and the people involved have been dealt with, if they or their friends don't like it, they should have thought about that before they started the slander and bullying! END OF! It is not acceptable behaviour and no matter how many people stamp their feet and throw a hissy fit, it's done now, the people involved have been dealt with. No-one is saying they are bad people it's just they did some crummy things!

Can we please just leave it now? Quite frankly all this is making me feel like walking away again and never coming back, and I bet I'm not the only one!

Haven't we all suffered enough! Haven't we already lost enough members?

We could argue till we're blue in the face but it's not going to resolve anything.

This place used to be a :smiliehom to many of us....... maybe we all need to remember that!

 

[Seraphim]

I'd just like to take this opportunity to point out -- again -- that the other folks banned (possible exception of ClemRocks) were banned for reasons generally known to the board membership at large, and largely agreed with/sanctioned by the board membership at large. Everybody (including myself and YC, publicly) agrees threats and trash talking and so on were simply over the line and should not be tolerated.

So this makes it all the more perplexing that nobody outside the mod clique seems to have the slightest idea why YC was banned. The only explanation I can see is that she was banned for

(1) misunderstood, relatively benign remarks for which she repeatedly apologized publicly and privately, and/or

(2) her close personal association with some of the people who actually *did* something ban-worthy.

Unless I'm seriously missing something, neither of the above rationales is a just and fair reason to permaban, especially if you're not going to give the accused an opportunity to defend herself.

As others have pointed out, I may not have a massive post count, but I've had a front-row seat for most of this action. I probably know more than even the mods on certain aspects of who did/said what, where, when. And while it's obvious why some folks were banned, I have yet to see the slightest reason offered for banning YC.

It troubles and disappoints me that the staff's response has been basically "shut up, you're causing trouble," rather than fairly attempting to engage concerns repeatedly expressed by members in good standing.

Other than that, Lou's post is excellent and covers most of the issues.

 

[captain peroxide]

This thing is geting outta hand,she said this,he said that,its pulling this place apart.
I know i'm new here,but i've seen this kinda thing before on other sites,it ends badly............
Who loses?
Everyone.

 

[Mesektet Ra]

Summers Blood disagrees: Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah....... just leave it!!!!!!

Why should he have to? If he feels strongly about the issue, he should speak up. I wouldn't expect you to to shut up just because you say things people don't like, and I wouldn't expect him to do the same.

Also, I feel like a lot of things are getting misconstrued here. If I'm feeding into the bullshit, please tell me, but I feel like this stuff has to be said. I feel like people think they know all about the situation and tell us we know nothing when, in fact, I feel like we know what's going on in regards to YC [not the mods or admins] and people are making slanderous remarks regarding things she's said and did that just aren't true. I could make a list of those things, if I felt like, but I don't think it's relevant until I'm asked.

 

[Seraphim]

VisionGuy disagrees: If you have any questions, it's best you PM them to Buffy Summers.

Respectfully, VisionGuy, I have to disagree with you. It's precisely this back-room, hush-hush, cloak-and-dagger attitude that's caused the current situation. I'm asking the staff to openly declare they'll be providing YC with a chance to defend herself, or openly declare they will give YC the opportunity to face her accuser(s).

A fair result without a fair and open process is still injustice, and I don't want anybody, on "my side" or the mod clique, to feel they have even the slightest excuse to continue drama and wild accusations when everything has been honestly resolved. I strongly feel that the only way to avoid the "he said/she said" arguments and aggrieved members is to keep the process as public and visible as possible.

 

[captain peroxide]

Its obvious the powers that be aren't gonna reinstate anyone,so its pointless really.
seraphim feels he needs to find some sort of closure on this.
I never knew yellowcrayon,so cannot judge,but both sides
cant be right can they.
This is messy
Whats done has been done.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Who am I kidding, I'm here, probably for the duration of this dilemma, then going again.

ANYWAY, I am sitting here reading this delicious (did I say delicious? that would imply I am loving every minute of it, which would be wrong - its WROOANNG) thread unfold and want to say some more.

Of course Seraphim is gonna support the missus, people shouldn't be shocked at that.
I am, however, sure that Seraphim is a wonderful wordsmith. Lets call a spade a spade here, as someone who has the ability to make comments that can be read as fair by somewhile being rather cutting, I can see that with you too mate.
Thats not a dig, its a wonderous tool in the world of 'politics' and while I don't have an issue with anything you said, I do think its time we admitted that what you said did have elements in it that have been correctly analysed and you seriously can't be surprised that people have called it.

I mean the whole 'how can I call someone a douchbag without saying it directly to them - I KNOW, I'll imply that by doing something MAKES someone a douchbag THEN describe how a specific person HAS done those things SO its not technically me calling the person a douchbag, its everyone else' - well thats just textbook.

I'm not having a dig at you, you've been wonderful (and I am sorry that YC has been banned), I just wanted to be clear that you must have been aware of this, so all your defenders can stop!

Anyway, lets get back to the 'he said/she said' because I bought popcorn on the way home.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaWUBgpA5WM"]You will do as I say![/ame]

 

[VisionGuy]

Bla blah blah blah BLAH!

This is not a court room so save it. If you wanted answers on this situation, you should have PM'ed BuffySummers. Nobody owes you or anybody an explanation.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

One further point.

We aren't in a democracy here, we're in Buffy-Boards.com where Buffy Summers is, to quote her full title, 'Supreme Ruler and smasher of goat skulls with pick-up truck wheels while eating tacos and saver of baby turtles', so no one has ANY 'rights' here unless she give you them.

Its a simple concept really, people can argue against it until they are blue in the face, buut that is the simple truth - when people realise that what they say has as much strength as a fart in a tornado then maybe they'll leave it be.
You know you have an option - leave!

 

[VisionGuy]

One further point.

We aren't in a democracy here, we're in Buffy-Boards.com where Buffy Summers is, to quote her full title, 'Supreme Ruler and smasher of goat skulls with pick-up truck wheels while eating tacos and saver of baby turtles', so no one has ANY 'rights' here unless she give you them.

Its a simple concept really, people can argue against it until they are blue in the face, buut that is the simple truth - when people realise that what they say has as much strength as a fart in a tornado then maybe they'll leave it be.
You know you have an option - leave!

And that's really it. He can stomp, scream his lungs out, say how unfair this is, pout, and everything. But a decision was already made and he will either have to stay mad or move on.

 

[Seraphim]

Oneside:

I never knew yellowcrayon,so cannot judge, but both sides
cant be right can they.

What I'm asking is for you to be able to judge. Everyone knows, for example, that certain members (NOT YC) said they'd like to stab people on the BB. Now that you know that, I'm sure you can judge and say "well, heh, I'm not surprised those folks got booted."

But none of us are in that position with regard to yellowcrayon. She's accused of something extremely uncharacteristic, and then the mods tell us "you're just gonna have to take our word on this, we have the proof somewhere in our super secret vault but none of y'all will ever get to know what it is."

Frankly, that doesn't strike me as a credible accusation. I'm not asking the mods to reinstate YC if she did indeed misbehave; I'm just asking that they be more open about what she did.

Ed:

I mean the whole 'how can I call someone a douchbag without saying it directly to them - I KNOW, I'll imply that by doing something MAKES someone a douchbag THEN describe how a specific person HAS done those things SO its not technically me calling the person a douchbag, its everyone else' - well thats just textbook.

I can say with 100% sincerity that I wasn't trying to call anybody a douchebag. I was basically trying to say "I hear y'all did X. X would be a pretty craptastic thing to do. You didn't really do X, did you?" And then I'm getting accused of calling people craptastic.

I would respectfully suggest that anybody who actually felt they were called a douchebag by my post is either hypersensitive or has a guilty conscience.

EDIT: No, Ed, I'm not really that surprised, and I probably phrased myself poorly in my attempt to be succinct. I'm just explanin'. But I think if folks compare my tone and conduct compared to that of my major detractors (Athena, Rampage), they will quickly realize my basic intentions are honest and decent.

EDIT 2: As for your other point, Ed, I fully realize that Buffy has absolute and despotic power. However, I also recognize that she's hopefully a decent human being and has a sense of justice and fair play. I likewise hope that she wouldn't want to be kicked out of a community based on an anonymous accusation leveled against her. So while I know I have no actual legal force to make her comply (short of suing for libel), I'm appealing to the human decency of the staff for answers.

 

[InsaneMystic]

Well, the staff is bound to know more than the regular member, it's in the nature of things.

So the question is, will we accept that the decision was an informed one, or are we gonna suspect some kind of conspiracy from evil and arbitrary staff? From what I know of my time as a mod on another forum: If you choose the latter, you're not long for the stay anyway (by which I don't mean you're due for a ban yourself - it's just that if you think the site is run by less than respectable people, why keep using it?)... so the wise decision is to spare yourself and anyone else the ulcers and just leave. 😉

The staff have decided there will not be a "public process" on this (and wisely, I might add - there really is nothing to bring a forum down faster than handling stuff like this out in the open threads, as this discussion here proves well enough in itself). Deal with it, because I very much trust they're intelligent enough not to go back on that decision. Besides, if anyone feels they want to explain their side to the mods, I trust there's ways and means to make contact even if they're banned (email, msn, whathaveyou). There's no need for it being done in the open, and little to be gained from it. As EB said, this isn't a democracy (on messageboards, other than in real life, democracy is a sucky rulership system anyway 😛 ) - so accept that you have only the rights the staff chooses to grant you.

 

[Harley]

Oh God, my eyes are bleeding.



























































(Go Raiden. Plus I think OMIII has this amazing way of putting a bandaid on everything... 🙁 )