Update Staff Decision

[Edmund Blackadder]

hypersensitive

Well because of the nature of the situation, every single person involved is gnna be this - the fact is both sides will be 'studying' what the other side is saying and reading between the lines, which automatically makes one more sensitive to the situation.

EDIT: As for your other point, Ed, I fully realize that Buffy has absolute and despotic power. However, I also recognize that she's hopefully a decent human being and has a sense of justice and fair play. I likewise hope that she wouldn't want to be kicked out of a community based on an anonymous accusation leveled against her. So while I know I have no actual legal force to make her comply (short of suing for libel), I'm appealing to the human decency of the staff for answers.

Like every other 'decent human being' that does fall by the way side when someone does something for the 'benefit' of others IF they deem its worthy.

I do not know the whole YC story but Buffy has made her decision based on what she knows and isn't likely to change her mind - shes as stubborn as a mule and twice as pretty (I don't know what she looks like before anyone assumes I am suggesting she looks like that) - I am sure YC is upset but she'll move on.

 

[Seraphim]

InsaneMystic, I'm not asking the mods to turn BB into a democracy -- I'm asking them to be fair in their dictatorship.

I'm not asking the mods to hold open court in some BB thread -- I'm asking them to publicly declare on this thread that they're committed to fairness and justice in this case, and I'm asking them to specifically enumerate what that means.

As for YC herself... she can't explain her side to the mods! They won't tell her what she did so she can explain! That's the whole point of my protest. She hasn't been given any opportunity to explain or defend any actions she's taken -- she's just been told "you were being a bully." And everyone who knows YC is unanimous; not only have they never observed her even remotely being a bully... they also all agree that they cannot even mentally conceive of YC bullying someone!

Yes, the mods have more info than the regular members, but I think you'll agree I'm in a somewhat privileged position as far as knowledge of my wife and access to all her activities and inner thoughts. 😉 That's why I'm putting up so much resistance -- I know there's something fishy going on here.

 

[Mesektet Ra]

As for your other point, Ed, I fully realize that Buffy has absolute and despotic power. However, I also recognize that she's hopefully a decent human being and has a sense of justice and fair play. I likewise hope that she wouldn't want to be kicked out of a community based on an anonymous accusation leveled against her. So while I know I have no actual legal force to make her comply (short of suing for libel), I'm appealing to the human decency of the staff for answers.

This. All of this.

This is exactly what I was trying to say in the thread about Lyri and Kean, he just said it much better. As he usually does.

And, also, to add to that, I believe to be our right as members to bring up issues with the staff when we have them and be able to discuss them. I don't think Seraphim is wrong in asking for answers, and Lou was right to point out that the staff isn't obligated to give them to us, but it's the human decency that Seraphim is referring to that gives us hope for them.

Also, I should note that YC isn't asking to be reinstated. She's mentioned that even if it did come to the point where she'd be able to do so, she probably wouldn't. She just wants answers. We're not stomping our feet and screaming for YC to return, we just wanna know what's up.

 

[Hero]

Seraphim, are you really going to disagree with every single post where someone isn't defending your wife? What is the point of you continuously debating with members over Buffy's decision? It's done and I'm sorry that someone close to you was banned, but you're starting to look pathetic by staying on here for so long just to defend your opinion when in reality, in the real world, it means absolutely nothing. If you have problem with "administrative injustuce, then go join your local government or something.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

And, also, to add to that, I believe to be our right as members to bring up issues with the staff when we have them and be able to discuss them.

Yes you have that 'right' BUT then they have the power to waft your 'issue' away being you it is as insignficant as gnats piss (do gnats urinate?) in the Pacific if they deem it.

 

[Spiral]

This. All of this.

This is exactly what I was trying to say in the thread about Lyri and Kean, he just said it much better. As he usually does.

And, also, to add to that, I believe to be our right as members to bring up issues with the staff when we have them and be able to discuss them. I don't think Seraphim is wrong in asking for answers, and Lou was right to point out that the staff isn't obligated to give them to us, but it's the human decency that Seraphim is referring to that gives us hope for them.

Also, I should note that YC isn't asking to be reinstated. She's mentioned that even if it did come to the point where she'd be able to do so, she probably wouldn't. She just wants answers. We're not stomping our feet and screaming for YC to return, we just wanna know what's up.

see i was TRYING to back off but you two just wont shut up! DAMN!

if you need that much to discuss this issue? several mods have ALREADY TOLD YOU to take it PM! If i was still on staff here, this thread would have BEEN closed.

They DIDNT have to say ANYTHING about it, but they chose to notify the board of action taken to address a problem as a COURTESY!

Seraphim's CONSTANT 2nd guessing of Buffy and her descision is TYPICAL He's been doing this to her (and Faith) for some time now and its just ONE example of how MANY members on this board have come to treat Buffy like a pariah on her own board!

We're ALL here at HER leisure and she doesnt HAVE to do anything she doesnt want to do and that INCLUDES engaging in some ridiculous notion of a "trial" in a thread about why someone was banned (LOL) She pays the bills around here and she should NOT have been pushed to the point where SHE felt uncomfortable to even BE ON HER OWN DAMN BOARD!

she LOST STAFF/FRIENDS because of the shit that was going on. No one is speaking on that. she herself was harrassed, disrespected and hounded...NO ONE IS ADDRESSING THAT.

All the majority of the people posting in this thread are doing are swinging on Seraphim's jock and not offering even HALF this "support" to the person who NEEDED IT, which is the OWNER of this board! WTF?

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejEVczA8PLU"]YouTube - Hakuna Matata(English)[/ame]

 

[Seraphim]

Seraphim, are you really going to disagree with every single post where someone isn't defending your wife?

Hero, are you really going to accuse me of disagreeing on principle when you seem to be ignoring the many pro-mod posts about which I said nothing? : erm :

What is the point of you continuously debating with members over Buffy's decision?

There have been quite a few remarks which have made borderline-libelous accusations and misrepresentations, and others which have asked questions that deserved answers. Like yours. 🙂

But believe me, in the absence of the above, I'd gladly shut up and just talk with the folks who make decisions around here.

If you have problem with "administrative injustuce, then go join your local government or something.

I don't think that's the message BB wants to send to its members. I may be a skeptic, but I'm hardly a cynic.

EDIT: Athena:

she LOST STAFF/FRIENDS because of the shit that was going on. No one is speaking on that. she herself was harrassed, disrespected and hounded...NO ONE IS ADDRESSING THAT.

I will gladly post in a "Buffy Sympathy" thread if you link me to one.

That said... yes, she lost friends and was harassed, disrespected, and hounded. None of this was at YC's intention or instigation. And you're kinda missing the part where YC has also lost friends "because of the shit that [is] going on" -- 'cause she was, y'know, banned without apparent cause? I think that's at least close to as rough as Buffy's been having it.

I'm not trying to absolve any guilty party of responsibility. I'm not trying to diminish the sacrifices the staff makes to keep these boards going. All I'm after is basic fairness. Period.

 

[Mesektet Ra]

Yes you have that 'right' BUT then they have the power to waft your 'issue' away being you it is as insignficant as gnats piss (do gnats urinate?) in the Pacific if they deem it.

That's kinda what I said. Or meant to say. That's true, but at the same time, appealing to their human decency isn't a bad thing. Expecting them to treat the situation humanely isn't asking too much.

Also, Athena, it does amuse me slightly that you're allowed to talk massive amounts of shit to us but if I were to say anything remotely like what you've been saying to to me, I'd've been banned two pages ago. I've said, and now for the third time, that I don't agree with what people have been saying but you're wrong for assuming YC was a 'bully' and 'threatened people', because I know for damn sure YC doesn't control me or the things I say or the decisions I make. You talk as if you know the ins and outs of the situation which amuses me because YC is my friend and you really don't know a damn thing about her.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldlyTjXk9A&feature=fvst"]YouTube - Spanish inquisition[/ame]




...I bet no one expected that!

 

[captain peroxide]

Oneside:



What I'm asking is for you to be able to judge. Everyone knows, for example, that certain members (NOT YC) said they'd like to stab people on the BB. Now that you know that, I'm sure you can judge and say "well, heh, I'm not surprised those folks got booted."

But none of us are in that position with regard to yellowcrayon. She's accused of something extremely uncharacteristic, and then the mods tell us "you're just gonna have to take our word on this, we have the proof somewhere in our super secret vault but none of y'all will ever get to know what it is."

Frankly, that doesn't strike me as a credible accusation. I'm not asking the mods to reinstate YC if she did indeed misbehave; I'm just asking that they be more open about what she did.

Ed:



I can say with 100% sincerity that I wasn't trying to call anybody a douchebag. I was basically trying to say "I hear y'all did X. X would be a pretty craptastic thing to do. You didn't really do X, did you?" And then I'm getting accused of calling people craptastic.

I would respectfully suggest that anybody who actually felt they were called a douchebag by my post is either hypersensitive or has a guilty conscience.

EDIT: No, Ed, I'm not really that surprised, and I probably phrased myself poorly in my attempt to be succinct. I'm just explanin'. But I think if folks compare my tone and conduct compared to that of my major detractors (Athena, Rampage), they will quickly realize my basic intentions are honest and decent.

EDIT 2: As for your other point, Ed, I fully realize that Buffy has absolute and despotic power. However, I also recognize that she's hopefully a decent human being and has a sense of justice and fair play. I likewise hope that she wouldn't want to be kicked out of a community based on an anonymous accusation leveled against her. So while I know I have no actual legal force to make her comply (short of suing for libel), I'm appealing to the human decency of the staff for answers.

I cannot judge that which i did not witness.
Your caught between a rock and a mountain,all up hill.
Just except its out of your hands.
I dont mean to be mean,and i'm really a nice guy(sometimes)
and this whole affair is painfull i'm sure.
Two things:
1Why would people say she was bullying/causing friction/whatever.What would they gain?
2How can the owners breach confidentiality,it
doesn't work like that

 

[Spiral]

EDIT: Athena:



I will gladly post in a "Buffy Sympathy" thread if you link me to one.

That said...

nothing after this really matters. your sarcastic remark just betrayed you as an insensitive JERK. you can bitch and moan about your "poor" wife...but you can make a sarcastic comment about the very REAL abuse that Buffy was taking on AND off this board by people that INCLUDED your wife? why are you even here if you dont respect Buffy enough to even realize that SHE is just a much a victim as you claim your wife to be. Like someone else JUST SAID, you're wife will MOVE ON from this...and YOU should try doing the same thing. It's DONE and OVER and nothing is going to change that.

I'm not trying to absolve any guilty party of responsibility. I'm not trying to diminish the sacrifices the staff makes to keep these boards going. All I'm after is basic fairness. Period.

but you ARE CLEARLY trying to diminish the mistreatment that Buffy and others took that LEAD to YC and co. being banned.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

This should put things in perspective!

 

[VisionGuy]

I'm after is basic fairness. Period.

You might have gotten better results if you took a different approach. But after your behavior in this thread, I don't think you deserve anything. I hope you and YC can comfort each other after this "horrible injustice" that has occured. Good luck. 🙂

 

[Spiral]

Also, Athena, it does amuse me slightly that you're allowed to talk massive amounts of shit to us but if I were to say anything remotely like what you've been saying to to me, I'd've been banned two pages ago. I've said, and now for the third time, that I don't agree with what people have been saying but you're wrong for assuming YC was a 'bully' and 'threatened people', because I know for damn sure YC doesn't control me or the things I say or the decisions I make. You talk as if you know the ins and outs of the situation which amuses me because YC is my friend and you really don't know a damn thing about her.

yeah i AM talking shit...and being BLUNT with it as opposed to seraphims attempts at subtle/backhanded remarks or complete dismissal of buffy's mistreatment.

what i DO know is that YC called buffy names and that ALONE is enough to warrant her being banned and had it been ANY OTHER BOARD that Buffy and I have been apart of in times past, she would have been gone for THAT "misunderstanding" or NOT. What i ALSO know is the abuse that buffy has been taking on AND off the board got to a point where she could hardly bring herself to BE here. what the hell? NO ONE is speaking on THAT.

the difference between YC and Buffy with respect to THIS board is that BUFFY is the owner, she pays the bills. there fore, what SHE says GOES. FLAT OUT.

Why is it that Buffy can't make descisions on how to run HER board without people like YOU and Seraphim trying to question her to exhaustion? what gives you the "right" to think you can 2nd guess her like that? if you're THAT opposed to it then LEAVE.

 

[Seraphim]

Oneside:

1- People would make such accusations either (1) because they've misinterpreted something she's said, or (2) because they're jerks. I can't do anything about (2), but (1) calls for an opportunity for YC to explain herself.

2- YC is a good person. If the staff let her confront the actual evidence against her, privately, she would maintain confidentiality. If there's a real risk of reprisal, there's no need to publicly out the evidence.

Athena:

1- I wasn't being sarcastic. I've admin'd forums before -- I really and truly do sympathize with the crap Buffy's had to tolerate. But even if you sympathize with Buffy, as I do, it only magnifies the tragedy for the end result to be the unfair banning of a perfectly innocent member.

2- If I were trying to diminish the misbehavior that went on, don't you think I'd be actually diminishing it and defending everyone banned, instead of saying "yeah, it was horrible, and most folks deserved what they got"? 😛

EDIT:

YC called buffy names and that ALONE is enough to warrant her being banned

YC said it seemed to her that a certain post of Buffy's was going to end up creating more drama than it resolved. She later apologized repeatedly for her phrasing and for the way her remarks were taken.

Whereas you have used extremely offensive and insulting language like "YC is a SHIT STARTER" and "everyone's swinging from Seraphim's jock," and apparently don't think that warrants a ban...?

 

[Mesektet Ra]

what i DO know is that YC called buffy names and that ALONE is enough to warrant her being banned and had it been ANY OTHER BOARD that Buffy and I have been apart of in times past, she would have been gone for THAT "misunderstanding" or NOT.

If you could explain to me what you're talking about exactly, I'd be more than willing to listen.

What i ALSO know is the abuse that buffy has been taking on AND off the board got to a point where she could hardly bring herself to BE here. what the hell? NO ONE is speaking on THAT.

Y'know? That sucks. It sucks hard that she felt that way, because you're right it's her board and she shouldn't feel like that. I've never once agreed that, "Yea, okay, it's totally okay for Buffy to feel like shit on her own board." Just the same, I didn't agree at all about the comments made about Lyri and Kean. Lyri was my best friend here, and people talking shit about her pissed me off. So I understand where you're coming from, I truly do.

the difference between YC and Buffy with respect to THIS board is that BUFFY is the owner, she pays the bills. there fore, what SHE says GOES. FLAT OUT.

I think Seraphim's comment about human decency sums up my response quite nicely.

what gives you the "right" to think you can 2nd guess her like that? if you're THAT opposed to it then LEAVE.

I have a basic right as a member of this board to bring up something if I feel like it needs to be discussed. And, darlin', leaving is the easy answer - something I wouldn't have a problem doing if I felt the need - but I feel like there are issues here [aside from YC's banning] that need to be addressed and I don't see any problems in bringing them up for discussion.

 

[Lou]

Could we possibly, for the sake of argument, that perhaps YellowCrayon IS confused.

Let's also say, that she DID speak out both publicly and privately about the things that were said off site about staff. That she DID say it was out of hand and infractions were warranted. And that she DID urge people to not post in the previous thread and lead it off of "we're sad Lyri and Kean had to go" onto "how dare you read our facebook pages and give out infractions for things said off site". Let's just ponder for a moment, if she DID say, "What you said was out of line, whether on site or off site and if it hurt Lyri's feelings you deserved an infraction. We should ignore that for now and leave their leaving thread alone, don't post, and go on with our day and happier things rather than make a bad situation worse and cause more hurt feelings."

Now, if we assume for half a second that side of the story, whether it be a side you can see or believe or not, wouldn't it kinda make sense that she's confused? That her husband would want answers? At least a prod in the general direction of, we have proof you said, "X, Y, and Z" in a room full of people and one of them was upset by it, rather than just going on about what other people did?

I'm not saying there isn't another side of the story. I'm sure there is. Obviously, at the very least, what she writes is read in one way but written in another. I firmly believe she has no idea what she's done.
It's been said she's not aiming to be reinstated, so isn't there POSSIBLY a way that this could be resolved? Send her an email, something. Perhaps not a "here is who is upset and what they said word for word" but maybe just a nudge in the right direction.

 

[Seraphim]

Mes: Thank you for pointing out that "it sucks to be Buffy," while true, is a straw man (since none of us ever said otherwise) and a red herring (since it's being used to distract from the central issue of due process).

Lou: Let's also point out that YC has been voted Member of the Month -- by the mods! So yes, she's completely baffled as to why she got banned -- she makes it a point of personal honor to try and be a polite, decent, responsible member.

 

[Spiral]

Y'know? That sucks. It sucks hard that she felt that way, because you're right it's her board and she shouldn't feel like that. I've never once agreed that, "Yea, okay, it's totally okay for Buffy to feel like shit on her own board." Just the same, I didn't agree at all about the comments made about Lyri and Kean. Lyri was my best friend here, and people talking shit about her pissed me off. So I understand where you're coming from, I truly do.

this is probably the most SINCERE regard for that situation i've seen in this thread so far. people are FORGETTING the fact that Buff and her staff held OFF acting sooner (despite the abuse she and others were taking) until regular TRULY innocent members were falling victim to this clique and only THEN did she even feel justified to take decisive action.

Buffy is long suffering and a very kind hearted woman, and its obvious that her kindness has been taken for granted around here. if only more people would THINK for a moment about how SHE feels and (as Rampage said) her maintaining this board IS a labor of love that she is not OBLIGATED to by any means...i think some of you would change your tune just a little bit.

I think Seraphim's comment about human decency sums up my response quite nicely.

and i think some of that same "human decency" could have been extened to Buffy when she was being bashed, THREATENED and harrassed. sorry but she's not jesus on the cross. she's not here to be crucified, burned or whatever else and then you think she and her staff owe "human decency" to the same people who mistreated them? get the hell out of here LOL!

I have a basic right as a member of this board to bring up something if I feel like it needs to be discussed. And, darlin', leaving is the easy answer - something I wouldn't have a problem doing if I felt the need - but I feel like there are issues here [aside from YC's banning] that need to be addressed and I don't see any problems in bringing them up for discussion.

your membership here is not a right its a priviledge. you dont pay any bills, you dont contribute any money to the board or its license so aside from having the "basic human decency right" to be free of harrassment (which was not even afforded to Buffy, her staff or other members which AGAIN is what lead to this banning) you really dont have ANY rights to DEMAND (which is what both you and seraphim are doing) anything from the staff.

if you have a problem, SEVERAL mods have come IN this thread already and asked you to PM them..and yet NEITHER of you are doing that, so basicallly, ONCE AGAIN you're disrespecting them and ignoring their direction. and yet you claim you have a right to question them?

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