Update Staff Decision

[Mr. Pointy]

Umm, as much as I agree, I gotta say, no one makes you read this thread!

It is fascinating though, in an unwholesome kind of way...the superego and the ego say "No!" but the id revels in the guilty pleasure...it's a schadenfreude thing I reckon...I may soon invoke my newly re-instated modly powers and close this down because it's getting really dull.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I may soon invoke my newly re-instated modly powers and close this down because it's getting really dull.

DO IT DO IT DO IT!


JUST as a point though - once this thread is closed, as far as I am concerned this issue is over which means I am gone!

 

[Silum]

i really dont give a damn how offensive you find my profanity to be. people cuss. grow up and get the hell over it 🙂

the fact that you care more about trying to rebuke me (snicker) rather than the fact your admin and staff were abused and mistreated by a handfull of SHITTY MEMBERS show where your priority and loyalties lie.

do i give a damn what a bunch of self righteous, pompous people who dont even know me think of me? HELL NO i dont.

am i PISSED that MY friend was on the verge of ABANDONNING her own board because of what was happening to her at the hands of these SHITTY MEMBERS? HELL YES and are YOU going to stop me from speaking on it? I dont think so!

so say what you want. best believe I will too! 😉

You realise you are talking to a bunch of innocent people correct? Control yourself.

I would just like to hold off on dragging Buffys name through the mud as you have inadvertantly done for a second. This IS a democracy, Buffy has graciously given us that right. We dont have to live in fear of being banned even without breaking the rules. We are a community, a community of friends, and Buffy is not hitler as you represent her as. Buffy is just the king of this empire and your right, her say goes. But that doesnt mean people cant question things and more importantly, that their opinions dont matter. Have a little respect. Anyway, consider me out of this thread (ok, I managed to only post twice lol) since to be fair, noones listening to any of you anymore anyway.

I may soon invoke my newly re-instated modly powers and close this down because it's getting really dull.

God please do. Let it be burned and forgotten so these people dont have to look back on their posts.

 

[Seraphim]

Rampage:

No, my wife is not a perfect individual. In fact, when she was admin-ing a board a couple years back, she tried something similar and I (successfully) staged a rebellion.

Like I've said earlier, I don't support people blindly.

So was she too hasty to post somewhere? Maybe. Did she phrase and structure her ideas poorly? Quite possibly. Did she make a bad judgment call? Perhaps. I'll say again: My wife is not perfect.

Nor, however, is Buffy.

The fact that she's a good person (like my wife) does not make her perfect.

The fact that she's generally a good admin (like my wife) does not make her perfect.

The fact that there really were folks who deserved a banning (unlike my wife) does not make her perfect.

I think she's making a bad and unfair call here. That doesn't make her evil -- that just makes her human. What I'm asking for is a conversation on that call.

Everyone except Athena has had nothing but good things to say about yellowcrayon.

Several people have expressed disbelief that she would have been banned.

Several people have expressed disbelief that yellowcrayon is even capable of what her accusers say she did.

This isn't just my perhaps-biased judgment. There are plenty of witnesses here who will offer testimony as to yellowcrayon's good character.

You go on at great length about how wonderful and nice and dependable Buffy is, Rampage. So envision Buffy getting kicked out of here based on a false accusation.

Would you stick up for her? Or would you just shrug and say "sucks she's gone, time to move on"?

I think you're a decent person, Rampage. I think if our positions were reversed and you were the person in a position to stick up for a falsely accused friend, you'd take it and go all the way. I think you'd ask for a fair hearing. I think you'd ask for justice. I think you'd do your absolute best to clear the good name of a good friend.

And so would I.

 

[VisionGuy]

Oh, this is still going on? Did Seraphim get an answer yet? LOL

 

[Seraphim]

OMG, that VG's shameless!

I've had quite a few replies, yes. 😉



EDIT: Lindsey keeps reading this thread. I'm interested in what he has to say 'bout all this. Pretty please, Lindseykins? 😉

 

[Skanky Vamp]

EDIT: Lindsey keeps reading this thread. I'm interested in what he has to say 'bout all this. Pretty please, Lindseykins? 😉

That was only one time.. have to ask ad infinitum before you get a response.. lol

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Members have spoken...the thread is now closed and grievances have been aired...and aired...and bloody well aired. If you have anything further to say take it up via PMs with the admins and head mods...I've been Mr Pointy and I'm a total fascist mod bastard...please feel free to quote it in IRC, Facebook and where the hell you want...but remember that no-one who mattered ever said BB was a democracy...goodnight and sleep well!!

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Wow, that was some read. I was on here all day today, was gone for a few hours and had so much reading to catch up on.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to have to go to bed, wake up and read another novel, especially one that goes round in circles.

Seraphim, I completely understand where you're coming from, but encase you haven't noticed this forum is a little broken at the moment, we are on the way to fixing that, and we still have a bit of work to do, and we're not going to get anywhere with you demanding what you consider justice, you said earlier that you don't like rats, and that if someone wants to say something, say it to their face - It's great that you feel that way, but that is how you feel. Not everyone is a comfortable with this method.

I'd also like to say that anything that is said to us, isn't the same as being a rat, being a slimy rat is actually going behind someone’s back, if something is reported to us this is 100% correct procedure, and the reason we have this in place is for anonymity.

Our members have seen what happens to people that say stuff face to face or questions people, they get talked about, harassed and eventually don’t want to be here. With the way our boards isn't working at the moment, Im surprised anyone said anything out in the open.

We need to be able to protect members that want to report things to us, you seem to be viewing this as the real world, and I think it would actually be easier in the real world because you can go and get legal action, but on the internet if someone wants to hassle you, all they have to do is look through your posts or your profile, where they'll get links to emails, Facebook, Myspace, Skype,MSN, IChat - because people share these with their friends. Being hounded by those methods is incredibly annoying - So anonymity is key.

So please, and I really mean it please stop asking for a reason. You have to trust that we do things for the good of the boards, if you don't trust us - why would you even want to be here?

I'm not in your position, Im a mod so I have to see and deal and discuss the issues with the other mods, so I can only imagine how frustrating it is for you, but unfortunately it's 100% necessary.
I know you've said that you say things to peoples faces, but if you didn't and you came to us, you'd be expecting 100% confidence.

But as I have said before, this is all gonna be about trust. The members that are left, are the members we trust, I know it's been said before this wasn't an easy decision, we had to think this over allot and there were heated discussions between all the mods over what steps we need to take. And this was our decision, this mean everyone that is left has the confidence and trust of the mods and we need the same back from you. If you have doubts about our decisions bring them up, we're human (Except for Pointy, still working on what he is!), but in order for us to move on we need to have your confidence that you know we made the right decision , as sure as we are on it. If your not, you really need to think why is that, and if you can't find the answer maybe thats a good enough answer to tell you something.

Wow, that was some read. I was on here all day today, was gone for a few hours and had so much reading to catch up on.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to have to go to bed, wake up and read another novel, especially one that goes round in circles.

Seraphim, I completely understand where you're coming from, but encase you haven't noticed this forum is a little broken at the moment, we are on the way to fixing that, and we still have a bit of work to do, and we're not going to get anywhere with you demanding what you consider justice, you said earlier that you don't like rats, and that if someone wants to say something, say it to their face - It's great that you feel that way, but that is how you feel. Not everyone is a comfortable with this method.

I'd also like to say that anything that is said to us, isn't the same as being a rat, being a slimy rat is actually going behind someone’s back, if something is reported to us this is 100% correct procedure, and the reason we have this in place is for anonymity.

Our members have seen what happens to people that say stuff face to face or questions people, they get talked about, harassed and eventually don’t want to be here. With the way our boards isn't working at the moment, Im surprised anyone said anything out in the open.

We need to be able to protect members that want to report things to us, you seem to be viewing this as the real world, and I think it would actually be easier in the real world because you can go and get legal action, but on the internet if someone wants to hassle you, all they have to do is look through your posts or your profile, where they'll get links to emails, Facebook, Myspace, Skype,MSN, IChat - because people share these with their friends. Being hounded by those methods is incredibly annoying - So anonymity is key.

So please, and I really mean it please stop asking for a reason. You have to trust that we do things for the good of the boards, if you don't trust us - why would you even want to be here?

I'm not in your position, Im a mod so I have to see and deal and discuss the issues with the other mods, so I can only imagine how frustrating it is for you, but unfortunately it's 100% necessary.
I know you've said that you say things to peoples faces, but if you didn't and you came to us, you'd be expecting 100% confidence.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to see this thread shut down, I think we need to get out every grievance, any problems and just anything, because otherwise, we will just continue being divided, and all behind you backy. It would be so much better to let the thread die naturally with issues sorted, then forced to keep quiet, (By sorting issues, I do not mean keeping the same questions going)

But as I have said before, this is all gonna be about trust. The members that are left, are the members we trust, I know it's been said before this wasn't an easy decision, we had to think this over allot and there were heated discussions between all the mods over what steps we need to take. And this was our decision, this mean everyone that is left has the confidence and trust of the mods and we need the same back from you. If you have doubts about our decisions bring them up, we're human (Except for Pointy, still working on what he is!), but in order for us to move on we need to have your confidence that you know we made the right decision , as sure as we are on it. If your not, you really need to think why is that, and if you can't find the answer maybe thats a good enough answer to tell you something.

Edit
Sorry Pointy, was writing while you were closing lol!

 

[Buffy Summers]

I think BEG said things very nicely, but now that I've caught up on reading this after being out of the house most of the day, I would like to address a few things.

I spoke to yellowcrayon via IRC last night immediately after she was banned from the boards. Where we left that conversation was that she was not upset that she was banned, but wanted to know the names of those who she had abused. I told her that I was sorry but that I could not give her those names. There was no "refusal" to tell her why she was being banned. Which is, once again, for bullying other members, abuse and intentionally creating rifts in our board community.

I can understand, as I said, that this may be a shock to some, and that still others of you who are her friends want to back her up.

BUT

Let's just be honest. If I want to ban someone, I can. I don't need to make up a reason. If I wanted to keep someone off the board just because I didn't like them, there are about a hundred different ways I could do that WITHOUT banning them. It's just a fact. I don't feel the need to do that, but I could.

After the time out, I had a good conversation with yellowcrayon via pm where she assured me that her behavior would stop, and I believed her. I held no grudge with her, and certainly did not "hate" her. But unfortunately, her behavior did not stop.

As I said, we (the staff) spent the last week collecting evidence. We had people (MULTIPLE people, in the case of yellowcrayon) come forward and speak out on what she was doing. I and 9 other staff members had to review the evidence we had, and make a unanimous decision. Seraphim/yellowcrayon were very fond of using legal jargon - the case was researched, evidence was submitted, it was reviewed by a judge, and voted on unanimously by a jury. I'm not sure how we could have been more fair.

This was a case of bullying. In what universe does it make sense to allow a bully to know who has spoken up against them? The reason these people asked for anonymity is that they were afraid of being blacklisted by the board and targeted BY YELLOWCRAYON (and her group). Their names were not even shared by us with other staff members for this reason. I am not (and will not) hand them over to be harassed and abused by these people. That yellowcrayon and Seraphim (who are sometimes interchangeable it seems) have been SO adamant and SO persistent in their pursuit of NAMES says to me that those people would not be left alone by them.

People who are here to wage some war against this board have no place being members here. You cannot love this board while doing so much to tear it apart.

 

[Buffy Summers]

white avenger agrees: I agree completely that there should be no place here for troublemakers. I, and I'm sure that I'm not alone here, just regret that it took the loss of two wonderful people to bring the action about.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I take the blame for that. I let trying to be "fair" get in the way of what needed to be done, and that was wrong of me in hindsight.

 

[white avenger]

Unfortunately, sometimes it just comes down to "My way or the highway."

 

[Hero]

Yeah, I wouldn't have figured out that they were the same person either... I'm also the person who drove with his eyes closed on the high way because the bright christmas lights in the distance were bothering me...

Well, now that this mess is over, let's have a pool party! (anyone who is watching Big Brother 11 USA will get that)

 

[Blondie Bear]

I don't think YC and Seraphim are the same person, but then, I've seen them in chats at the same time, so. . . . *shrug*

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I don't think YC and Seraphim are the same person, but then, I've seen them in chats at the same time, so. . . . *shrug*

I don't believe in the real world they are for I have both on my Facebook as friends and they are both distinctively different people on there - I'm thinking that its being suggested that YC logged on under Seraphim and used his account.

I don't know for definite however I don't believe that is the case as again they both have different ways of dealing with things.

 

[Buffy Summers]

It's not necessary to debate this issue.

 

[captain peroxide]

Yc and seraphim the same person?

Seraphims an octopus now?
Posting at same times a gift.::huh1::

 

[Buffy Summers]

This line of discussion serves no purpose. As yellowcrayon posted in chat as Seraphim, and as you can see how the writing style changes to YC's in some posts, I think it's pretty likely yellowcrayon was posting in her husband's account. However, it really makes no difference to the situation, and I don't think anyone actually thought Seraphim was posting totally independently at the time anyway lol.

 

[Mesektet Ra]

I had a minor discussion with BEG last night in the IRC, in which I was irritated about the outcome of things. Not just on YC's behalf - I think there are issues here that tie in to YC's banning and issues that need to be discussed with the staff and the members to find a good route the works for everyone, because I feel like it's become pretty apparent at this point that sweeping gestures on the part of the staff just anger people and cause more drama. Not that they should, but it happens.

Part of my irritation in the IRC last night was with the fact that while I think, for the most part, I maintained a calm and level head and tried to make my point in a calm manner, we had someone like Athena bitching and berating everyone for just not agreeing with her. After the fact, I sat back and looked at some of the things she said and realized I was baited into an argument that I should've had the good sense to stay out of, which is my bad entirely. And not only that, but she gets pats on the back for 'protecting her friend' [which I don't doubt was her intention, but at the same time I feel like that was just a guise used to be rude to everyone who didn't automatically jump on the 'WE LOVE BUFFY' train], and people are saying things to the effect of, "If you mess with Athena's friends, you get put on blast blahblahblah." Someone like Athena is rude and obnoxious and no one on the staff did a thing about shutting her up while that mess was going on. That irritated the hell out of me because after that, it's just like - why the hell would I want to be bigger person in a situation where someone is acting half their age? What's the incentive here? Buffy's friends get to do it, so why can't I?

Mostly, I'm irritated because I felt like I was doing a good thing by airing these issues and putting them up for discussion but no one wanted to listen, and on top of that, no one cared. I feel like the whole mindset of the board at this point is, "Shut up, don't cause problems, just side with Buffy and everything will be FINE." And while everyone has their own individual reasons for thinking so, and while a lot of those reasons have merit, I didn't think it was part of the plan here to sit down and shut up when I felt like there was something wrong with not only the way the board was being run, but the way the membership was acting on top of it. We all have issues here, not just the staff, and if I come off like I'm singling them out I don't mean to. But if I'm wrong in thinking that I shouldn't just sit down, shut up and deal with it then please let me know.

It's a point of pride for me not to have left that thread when I did yesterday because I was being told to by some troll who's, as I look back on it now, sole purpose was to be rude and start shit with people. Not because of simple pride, but because I believe strongly in the issues I was trying to raise and I wanted at least some kind of recognition as to the fact that they're being discussed or thought over. And I didn't want to leave the board because of it, but I'm at the point now where I feel like these issues aren't going to get resolved in any way and there are still going to be problems here because of it, no matter whatever sweeping gesture on part of the staff comes next. This place either alternately pisses me off or depresses me everytime I come here now, and that in and of itself saddens me. It wasn't too long ago that I was happy to be here, happy to be in the IRC and posting and goofing off and having fun. But, y'know, Athena was right - if I don't like it, I can just leave. And it's really shitty to me that someone like Athena can be the victor of the situation and get her way - getting me out of here - but that's a sidenote to the fact that I don't think this place is going to get any better going in the direction we're going.

 

[Flannen]

I have thought long and hard, and discussed with friends on and off the Board, about whether or not to go ahead and do what I'm about to do.

I have just read through this entire thread to make sure that I post on this having read through what everyone has to say. My main issue with some of the posts in this thread were things like this:

1- People would make such accusations either (1) because they've misinterpreted something she's said, or (2) because they're jerks. I can't do anything about (2), but (1) calls for an opportunity for YC to explain herself.

This is honestly what I found to be the most infuriating type of comment on here. It is a real discredit to the members who have felt mistreated by YC, or for those who have questioned her behaviour. These sorts of comments must make those members feel absolutely awful, but no consideration has been given to them. If they have genuinely felt this way, how do you think they feel now? Questioning themselves, worrying that maybe they misread the situation or they were wrong and they've lead to someone being banned? And maybe it's not surprising that comments like this have been made when those members haven't felt comfortable stepping forward in this thread, and hell, who can blame them?

Well here you are: I am one member who had issues with YC's behaviour. As I said, I have debated at great length whether to do this, taking the backlash I might receive into consideration, but I've decided that it's about time someone stepped up, supported the staff and made it clear they didn't just ban the 'ones they don't like' and showed that not everyone thinks this banning was unjustified. You wanted the anonymity to be lifted and I'm doing just that. I don't think I am the only member who did say something about it, I don't think highly enough of myself to think that my concerns alone would result in the banning of another member.

I used to spend time in the IRC channel that has caused some concern. A few nights ago, I left very quietly and will not be going back any time soon. I found myself getting increasingly angry at what was being said and the outright refusal by some people to even try and understand this situation from the staff's point of view. Every post made by the staff was instantly read in the most negative way possible, to the point that without unleashing the hell-beast within me, I could no longer read, so I left.

I felt, that because the other side of the coin was being argued with constantly, with some absolutely ludicrous excuses, what was going on in that channel, on behalf of some of the members, including YC, was to encourage the members to boycott the staff. My feelings at the time, which I did express, and still uphold, is why don't you just leave? If you are that unhappy, delete your account, because there was just no point. The members as a whole, or individually are NOT bigger than the Boards themselves, no matter what some people may think; and this was the impression I was getting. Which, quite frankly, infuriated me. I was fed up with the hypocrisy of the whole thing, people complaining about drama and then going ahead and creating more, and now after reading through this thread and all the crap and questions that is been thrown at the staff, just because some people want to know who might have addressed the staff and they, rightly, have maintained anonymity, I going to try and give a bit of perspective.

Please don't misunderstand me, and think that I am referring to everyone in that channel. Those of you that know me, know that I do my utmost not to be misunderstood and I would hate for this to be the case now. And I'd also like to add that I was friendly with YC, and I didn't particularly want to feel the way I did, but I did and I addressed it in the way I felt necessary for the good of the Board because I love this place and I want it to be as fun and friendly as it can.

I'm sorry if I have shocked/upset anyone with this post, but I don't think I could have continued to see the staff being attacked for their decision, when there was something I could do to help clarify.