Stranger Things Season 5 Spoiler Discussion

[thetopher]

I don't think El's death was a true fake-out, her being dead makes the most logical sense but they left enough room for Mike and some portions of the fanbase to believe she's alive if they want and so they could bring her back if there's ever some kind of continuation which seems fair enough.

I suppose people can except that El got 'fake' killed off again, just like at the end of S1, or they can believe she's actually dead THIS TIME. It's still seems a tad empty of stakes for a story that took a decade to tell.

I think people are being a bit unfair to Stranger Things when it comes to them needing to kill off main characters, Buffy never killed off a core character even when they were establishing Angelus as a huge threat

I think its fair to say that Stranger Things leaned more heavily into horror than Buffy did, at least in terms of visceral gore and bloody death, so the audience would expect something of consequence to happen to a named main character at some point (it almost happened to Max before that was inexplicably retconned in the next season).
And Buffy had the sense, at least until the final season, to keep the main cast trimmed down by writing out characters who were now superfluous. Btw Jenny Calendar WAS shocking at the time because it was the first time death had touched the main cast; Jenny had well defined relationships with most of the main cast; Buffy, Giles and Willow, who were all traumatized by it. And it made Xander more angry/determined that Angel/us should die well into the next season. Consequences.

But the opposite happened in Stranger Things, which kept accruing main characters until the final season was so incredibly bloated that main characters like Mike or Lucas barely have anything to do.
Also- slightly related topic- it became obvious the the character dialogue was interchangeable when people started finishing each others sentences, so the character voices became much less distinct, making every scene more tedious. Especially when those scenes were just lots of talking, plans, stupid ideas that will somehow work because the writers are making it up as they go.

If I can say anything positive I'd say that this might actually make me appreciate Buffy S7 a little bit more, because at least it that case it wasn't just an overstuffing of characters but also one crappy character hogging a lot of screen time.

 

[thetopher]

btw #conforitygate has been trending on twitter/X and has hit the mainstream media in the recent past.
The fan-theory is that there's another fullass final episode dropping between Jan 7-12 that is the 'real' final episode. (In reality its a behind-the-scenes- episode)
This uh, 'theory' sites behind the scenes footage revealing different coloured scripts, actors hinting at things that never happened on the actual show, screencaps of rejected episode ideas, etc.
This stuff is what is keeping a lot of fans still engaged with the show. I think its just cope.

 

[Hunga Munga]

Yeah ConformityGate is some weird business . I'm just thankful 'they' didn't want Steve and Dustin to bang .

I personally had no problem with the cast size . It's the season limitations that create that bloated feel in my opinion . 42 episodes in 10 years is not enough . You could argue that Stranger Things is more cinema than it is television I guess . `
The Duffers said they don't even own the IP , so I suspect some trimmed down Dufferless season 6-10 is inevitable .

 

[Bop]

Btw Jenny Calendar WAS shocking at the time because it was the first time death had touched the main cast; Jenny had well defined relationships with most of the main cast; Buffy, Giles and Willow, who were all traumatized by it. And it made Xander more angry/determined that Angel/us should die well into the next season. Consequences.

Still, Angelus was supposed to be the most dangerous vampire of all time and all he took out was Jenny and Willow's fish. His version of psychologically torturing Drusilla was killing her family and driving her actually insane but his version of doing the same to Buffy was just killing a teacher she liked and who was her mentor's partner? Somebody can easily poke holes in that, I'd say Jenny was equal to Bob they were impactful deaths because of their relevance to the main characters but the characters themselves weren't core to the show which enables them to be killed off.

Post automatically merged: Jan 7, 2026

42 episodes in 10 years is not enough .

I haven't tried to add it up but to be fair the episodes are sometimes 2 hours each so maybe it's closer to 5 seasons of Buffy in runtime.
Personally I prefer the traditional 42 minute 22 episode seasons like Buffy and Riverdale.

 

[Cohen]

I haven't tried to add it up but to be fair the episodes are sometimes 2 hours each so maybe it's closer to 5 seasons of Buffy in runtime.
Personally I prefer the traditional 42 minute 22 episode seasons like Buffy and Riverdale.

Just because your post made me curious, Google says 2,718 minutes, which makes roughly 63 episodes of 43-minute television, which would almost equate to Veronica Mars’ initial 3-season run. Which is still an epic ride. I just started season 2 of my latest rewatch.

I’ll always love Rob Thomas’ genius of interweaving a 22-episode storyline inside of self-contained mysteries of the week. And the season-long storylines of the first two seasons would only use the final 2 episodes as the “main” mystery. Absolute genius.

To be honest, he could have had the third season’s first mystery stretch the season, and it still would have been a compelling narrative, even including each of the mysteries of the week of the final half of the season.

It’s what’s missing from today’s streamers, even including Stranger Things. But to be fair, the season is about like watching 5 distinct movie trilogies. There’s usually a 2-3 episode narrative arc that you can kind of cut into pieces of a movie trilogy. I’d love to watch it recut into 5 movie trilogies.


So… if you think about it that way.. it kind of does work out as a 10 year journey. lol.

 

[thetopher]

Still, Angelus was supposed to be the most dangerous vampire of all time and all he took out was Jenny and Willow's fish. His version of psychologically torturing Drusilla was killing her family and driving her actually insane but his version of doing the same to Buffy was just killing a teacher she liked and who was her mentor's partner? Somebody can easily poke holes in that, I'd say Jenny was equal to Bob they were impactful deaths because of their relevance to the main characters but the characters themselves weren't core to the show which enables them to be killed off.

I don't really see the comparison between Buffy S2 body count and, y'know, the entirety of Stranger Things. Plenty of cast members and prominent guest stars died throughout the run of BtVS. But despite their protestations about not being a fan of 'shock death'- they are just not for main characters- the Duffer Bros used gore and visual horror to obfuscate the complete lack of stakes and nonsensical plotting (mystery-boxing in modern parlance)

Maybe you could argue that the horror of Angelus was overstated- but the horror there is not just physical but really comes from 'lover betrayed' and how a once trusted ally is now a vicious, sadistic antagonist, not to mention that Angelus was a potent psychological threat- as he himself pretty much states- which somewhat explains his manner of not directly targeting but terrorizing.

No such excuse for the demogorgans- who were wandering monster-predators for the majority of their runtime, until they became slavish foot-soldiers to an arch-villain who, unlike Angelus, actually had a specific agenda beyond 'cause pain and suffering'; he wanted to bring about the mindflayer's will, an end of the world apocalypse, and had 5 seasons in which to do it...but was summarily defeated only because he didn't use any of the resources we were shown he had.

Yep, Vecna certainly wasn't Angelus, he couldn't hope to reach that level of competence, he wasn't even the First. He's like...Warren? Warren level? But then at least Warren accidentally managed to kill a long running cast member.

Hmn, Vecna is maybe like The Gentlemen, a cool looking MotW with a mysterious alien agenda, just having a plot stretching over 10 years instead of 40-some minutes, which might explain why many fans have such dissatisfaction with the outcome of the show.

 

[Bop]

Hmn, Vecna is maybe like The Gentlemen, a cool looking MotW with a mysterious alien agenda, just having a plot stretching over 10 years instead of 40-some minutes, which might explain why many fans have such dissatisfaction with the outcome of the show.

Or maybe it's like IT, which has a lot of horror but Pennywise only killed one of the main case of characters and it was the one given the least attention- but I'm basing this statement off the 1990 mini series because it's the best and I've never read the book.

 

[thetopher]

Or maybe it's like IT, which has a lot of horror but Pennywise only killed one of the main case of characters and it was the one given the least attention- but I'm basing this statement off the 1990 mini series because it's the best and I've never read the book.

But IT is a film- or mini-series at best- based on actual source material. So we can judge Stephen King on the quality of the horror of IT. And I think many rate it highly given how Pennywise has ascended into pop culture. I doubt Vecna will do the same. The demogorgon WAS effective and iconic...but because it a great creature design, but time will tell if it stands the test of time. Iconic monsters

Anyway, only if IT was heavily changed in its adaptation could we judge a script write or show runner about the quality of the IT TV show (which I will be doing when I watch IT: Welcome To Derry) otherwise its, again, another bad comparison since a horror film is not a horror television show that was running for about a decade. The TV has many more characters, subplots and time to fill, stakes need to be maintained, etc.

And...its not like Pennywise doesn't get mocked for being beaten and almost killed by a bunch of preteen kids, but at least he gets better after about 30 years? lol.

 

[Bop]

But IT is a film- or mini-series at best- based on actual source material. So we can judge Stephen King on the quality of the horror of IT. And I think many rate it highly given how Pennywise has ascended into pop culture. I doubt Vecna will do the same. The demogorgon WAS effective and iconic...but because it a great creature design, but time will tell if it stands the test of time. Iconic monsters

Anyway, only if IT was heavily changed in its adaptation could we judge a script write or show runner about the quality of the IT TV show (which I will be doing when I watch IT: Welcome To Derry) otherwise its, again, another bad comparison since a horror film is not a horror television show that was running for about a decade. The TV has many more characters, subplots and time to fill, stakes need to be maintained, etc.

And...its not like Pennywise doesn't get mocked for being beaten and almost killed by a bunch of preteen kids, but at least he gets better after about 30 years? lol.

It's a comparison because Stranger Things is apparently a homage to things like The Goonies, ET and IT in spirit and tone, but as a show. They made really obvious references to IT in the final episode.

Post automatically merged: Jan 8, 2026

And...its not like Pennywise doesn't get mocked for being beaten and almost killed by a bunch of preteen kids, but at least he gets better after about 30 years? lol.

The horror in IT (the mini series) was perfect to be honest because Pennywise is just a metaphor for the kids getting over their childhood trauma so clearly the kids have to defeat him without him killing them for the metaphor to work.

 

[RachM]

I would say I was disappointed by Season 5 but I went in with very low expectations, so I guess I pretty much got what I expected.

Still marvelling over how nothing happened in seven episodes. Once again, zero stakes, because the Duffers are too cowardly to actually kill or even seriously injure any characters (Karen Wheeler being able to walk around just fine after life threatening injuries and surgery was on par with Max surviving last season).

All the monologuing and big speeches got boring. Will suddenly having Phoenix-level powers that just conveniently activated at the right time needed more build up. El was completely forgotten about and her "death/non-death" was the biggest cop out. And that ridiculously saccharine ending, where apparently the government just let our heroes go and they all lived "happily ever after"??? So very bad.

At least we are now free!!! No more Hawkins, no more Upside Down, no more Stranger things! 3/10 for the final season,

 

[Hunga Munga]

I do agree that the very vague soft focus ending was a major failing . No mention of getting out of Dimension X . No huge coils of rope or even water for the kids . No attempt to cover their tracks by dumping murder weapons from the rightside up . Yet somehow it all works out ? A few lines of exposition here and there could have firmed that stuff up into something more credible .

 

[Bop]

And that ridiculously saccharine ending, where apparently the government just let our heroes go and they all lived "happily ever after"??? So very bad.

Wasn't it more of a secret operation though? They were only interested in Eleven and since they saw her die what would they have to gain from taking in anyone? I think it kind of makes sense that they just called it a day and left Hawkins because they knew they were never going to be able to make more superheroes without El and she's gone so mission over.

 

[Hunga Munga]

I've managed to fanwank the copium that all the Special Forces that did the wetwork were dead , so all Dr Kay had left were ordinary grunts that wouldn't kill or kidnap civilians on command . That's my best effort .

 

[Bop]

Special Forces that did the wetwork were dead , so all Dr Kay had left were ordinary grunts that wouldn't kill or kidnap civilians on command . That's my best effort .

That's a good idea actually because some people have noticed one of the soldiers standing behind Mike (or one of the others) looking kind of sad when El died and I think they weren't acting as aggressive towards the group compared to the earlier soldiers.

 

[thetopher]

It's a comparison because Stranger Things is apparently a homage to things like The Goonies, ET and IT in spirit and tone, but as a show. They made really obvious references to IT in the final episode.

Yeah, apparently all the plotholes and fan-w*nk in Stranger Things can be explained away by the show being a 'homage' to other, better, horror or 80's tropes or whatever. The fact is there is a difference between a movie and a long-running TV show. A horror movie doesn't have a cast that would make the average slasher movie look bloated and then have all the characters survive until the end.

IT had a core cast that got the focus and one of them didn't make it, that's fine, Buffy had a core cast of, usually, 5 or 6 and two of them died in the finale of the show, Stranger Things had a bloated, largely pointless cast and they all lived happily ever after or whatever.

This is because the Duffer Bros. hardly ever killed anyone off OR even wrote anyone out of the damn show, except actually plot useful ones like Paul Reiser's trustworthy government guy.
But boy, gotta have quirky Robin or the creepy journalist dude who's way too invested in teenagers getting it on, cuz funny.

The horror in IT (the mini series) was perfect to be honest because Pennywise is just a metaphor for the kids getting over their childhood trauma so clearly the kids have to defeat him without him killing them for the metaphor to work.

Horror should work on a practical AND metaphorical level and the metaphorical is secondary tbh. Buffy has to beat the vampires not just say 'hey, you're a metaphor for perpetual adolescence' and then the vampires stop attacking, pause and then let themselves happily get staked because, dude, they're just a metaphor. She has to out-fight, out-think them or whatever and sometimes she doesn't. That one time she died, etc. Stakes.

Same with all horror really, the practical comes first, the metaphor is there to give your brain something to ponder on or to resonate with, but it all has to have an internal consistency, which Stranger Things had less and less of as the writers started 'explaining things'.


Look, you like it, that's great, Imma gonna stop posting like this because the show genuinely isn't worth this level of investment or scrutiny.

And that ridiculously saccharine ending, where apparently the government just let our heroes go and they all lived "happily ever after"??? So very bad.

Yep, like the government wouldn't care that Nancy and Hopper killed how many US soldiers. But don't worry, Hopper got to chief of police somewhere lol.
What a literal clown show.

Tbh I knew it was hopeless when the government put steel plating over a dimensional rift to hell and didn't evacuate the town because APPARENTLY we needed to do more sneaking around and investigating the government- again. Plus yet more school bullies, yawn.

 

[Bop]

Look, you like it, that's great, Imma gonna stop posting like this because the show genuinely isn't worth this level of investment or scrutiny.

It's just suspension of disbelief and you probably do it for shows you like.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

I thought season 1 was good, season two had its moments but the scriptwriting had begun to go downhill and it kept heading that way. Then for some reason or other El lost her power and the program went downhill, it sorta relied on the acting capabilities of the actors which was disappointing apart from the leads. Getting rid of El completely had me finding the off switch.
That's my opinion.

Oh and I just loved(?) that Grim Reaper ad @November. How many people do you think are in hospitals now because of Aids? I was tempted to ask how many are in hospital due to that ad?

 

[thetopher]

I would advise anybody still under the illusion that Stranger Things was a good show run by talented writers NOT to watch the behind the scenes episode. The Duffers...don't come across very well out of it.
I mean, it goes beyond all of the damage they've already inflicted on themselves through social media posts and trying to 'explain' their writing process lol.

 

[Cohen]

I would advise anybody still under the illusion that Stranger Things was a good show run by talented writers NOT to watch the behind the scenes episode. The Duffers...don't come across very well out of it.
I mean, it goes beyond all of the damage they've already inflicted on themselves through social media posts and trying to 'explain' their writing process lol.

I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it because some of the magic may go away. I read an article that stated the documentary showed they literally were writing the finale as they were filming the finale. Set designers didn't know what to do, or what to prepare for in the normative advance that other limited series shows usually get. And now, seeing the ending... it makes sense why it ended the way it did because they truly didn't know how they wanted to end.

I also just read an article today that said GOT writer George RR Martin has called "Winds of Winter" (book 6 of 7 in his series) is low on his priority list. LOW? You've been stringing fans along for 15 years. But it ties back to what I said earlier in that these writers more often then not go into something with a GREAT concept and no ending in mind. And that's what hurts these series.

I don't know that I want to ruin what I love from ST by watching the documentary.

 

[Hunga Munga]

I came here today to chew bubblegum and make that very point ...and i'm all out of bubblegum 😉 . The most notable thing about the documentary is they didn't have the finale written when they started shooting .
The sets had a decent lead time though .

Another thing that got me is how slow the Duffers worked . I'm all for genuine camerawork and minimal CGI but they rehearse the crap out of everything . They spent a couple of weeks with the Main Unit on single scenes . In the same timeframe folk shot whole episodes of Smallville ...and still managed to put in oners and arty shots .