Subject of the Shanshu Prophecy

[VampireJason]

I'd drop the Series if Spike became Shanshued over Angel. Sure Angel was cursed with his soul but as Angel pointed out Spike only got his soul back to "get into a girl's pants" Spike only got his soul back because of an obsession which IMO doesn't make him anymore of a champion then what Angel is. Spike didn't have to go through what Angel did. Angel couldn't be with the love of his life (Buffy) because he would become Angelus. Angel had to live while everyone else around him died. Angel lost the only son he'll ever have because a so-called friend took his child which resulted in his mortal enemy getting his hands on him. I rest my case.

 

[Marisa]

I'd drop the Series if Spike became Shanshued over Angel. Sure Angel was cursed with his soul but as Angel pointed out Spike only got his soul back to "get into a girl's pants" Spike only got his soul back because of an obsession which IMO doesn't make him anymore of a champion then what Angel is. Spike didn't have to go through what Angel did. Angel couldn't be with the love of his life (Buffy) because he would become Angelus. Angel had to live while everyone else around him died. Angel lost the only son he'll ever have because a so-called friend took his child which resulted in his mortal enemy getting his hands on him. I rest my case.

I understand your point about Angel's struggles but I don't like angel for making that comment. Every-time he makes it, it seems like it is out of jealousy. Yes spike got a soul for a woman because he knew to be a good man he needed a soul. He was already fighting the good fight with the woman.
Also about Angel's struggles all the character's had struggles such as loosing love of their lives and so on so to say his is any worse wouldn't necessarily be fair IMO.

 

[Tsquared]

I understand your point about Angel's struggles but I don't like angel for making that comment. Every-time he makes it, it seems like it is out of jealousy. Yes spike got a soul for a woman because he knew to be a good man he needed a soul. He was already fighting the good fight with the woman.
Also about Angel's struggles all the character's had struggles such as loosing love of their lives and so on so to say his is any worse wouldn't necessarily be fair IMO.

I too think that saying Spike only got his soul to get into a girl's pants is a bit of an overstatement. Yeah, he had already been intimate with Buffy before, yet the fact of the matter is that he sought out his soul for somebody other than himself. It wasn't just to "be" with Buffy, he also wanted her love and to be the kind of man who would never hurt her (physically and emotionally). In the Buffyverse I think this kind of act coming from an "evil" soulless monster is something to admire in itself.

 

[Flannen]

It's Angel shanshu. Always has been and always will be. If the unforgivable was to happen it's safe to say I would drop the whole series, lose the little respect I have left for Joss and probably never be inclined to watch either shows again.

Honestly.

 

[VampireJason]

I agree 100% with Flannen. And had not Spike fallen for Buffy or had the bloody chip in his head it wouldn't have crossed his mind to get his soul back

 

[white avenger]

As far as who is the subject of the Shanshu prophecy, I have no problem whatsoever in leaving it all to Angel. I also believe, however, that if Spike ever wanted his mortality returned, he would definitely find a way to get the job done, the same as he did with his soul. Which he did, incidentally, by his own admission, "to be the sort of man the Slayer deserves," not just to "get in her pants," which is basically the exact same reason that Angel wants to regain his mortality. Either they both want to become better men, or they both want to get in Buffy's pants. I prefer the more noble goal for both.

 

[Kana]

I agree 100% with Flannen. And had not Spike fallen for Buffy or had the bloody chip in his head it wouldn't have crossed his mind to get his soul back

Being honest though you can't really mark Spike down for that. The argument will always follow, "But at least Spike chose to get a soul which is more than we can say for Angel", but all that does is reduce the whole thing to a scoreboard.

I think the main argument for Angel's candidacy is emotional. We want him to Shanshu because of what he's suffered and what he's had to give up. We also dreamed of the day he'd be free of his curse, not only the happiness clause but immortality.

I honestly hope we never know. I want to entire thing to end without anyone shanshuing or if they do shanshu it would be in an unexpected way.

 

[white avenger]

I agree 100% with Flannen. And had not Spike fallen for Buffy or had the bloody chip in his head it wouldn't have crossed his mind to get his soul back

By that logic, if Angelus hadn't tortured and murdered a Gypsy girl, thus incurring the wrath of her entire clan, the idea of regaining his mortality, or even his soul, for that matter, would never have occurred to him.

 

[Taake]

I agree 100% with Flannen. And had not Spike fallen for Buffy or had the bloody chip in his head it wouldn't have crossed his mind to get his soul back

I agree with you. I think Angel is the Shanshu vampire. However... I mean honestly, Buffy did kind of put Angel on the way to redemption as well... sure he already had his soul but though he'd done some good before her he had pretty much spent the majority of the time well... moping.

Enter perky Miss Sunnydale and look who's all gung-ho on being a better man? Much like Spike, only with a soul.

 

[Connor Holtz]

I lol so hard every time I read someone say they will drop the series if Spike is the one who Shanshues. I get people prefer it to be Angel but to admittedly say you'll never watch the show again because a different CHAMPION and Spike is a champion, earns his humanity is a little rash IMO.

 

[BibliophileAnn]

Spike being a champion and having a soul for me makes the Angel character less original than he was in the beginning which is what attracted me to the character in the first place. I know plots get recycled when you are writing a series but couldn't they have come up with something more original with Spike.

 

[Flannen]

I lol so hard every time I read someone say they will drop the series if Spike is the one who Shanshues. I get people prefer it to be Angel but to admittedly say you'll never watch the show again because a different CHAMPION and Spike is a champion, earns his humanity is a little rash IMO.

It's about an awful lot more than me just preferring Angel as a character. I hate Spike, that's no secret but with this one the character is not an issue.

If Spike was to get the Shanshu then all I would do is applaud Joss for pooping over his own show, destroying the story he had spent years building only to throw it in people's faces. It would have made the show become something so far from what I originally loved about it and it would totally change how I felt about the show.

It wouldn't be a rash decision. I've been a fan of Buffy for over ten years and there are many things in the later seasons that niggle at me but Angel not being the one to be awarded the Sanshu would push me over the edge.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I don't think it is rash either, if they Shanshu Spike they kinda ruin the entire series of Angel, everything he was working towards, it would just piss me off doing a rewatch.

 

[dan k]

I think its Angel's destiny not Spike's. For so long he has lived in hope of this prophecy, for Spike to suddenly come in and take it wouldn't be right for me.

I think Angel needs it more than Spike does. He has suffered for a century and gone through so much to get the Shanshu. I'am not saying Spike's not entitled to it but i think its written for Angel.

 

[Brandonxx93]

I believe for a fact without a doubt in my mind that it is meant for Angel. No disrespect to Spike and all, I do like him.

What annoys me is when Spike says that Angel had a soul forced on him as a curse (which is true) but then Spike says he had to fight for his soul.

Umm hello Spike!?! The reason you got a soul is because you had a CHIP in your head which didnt allow you to kill anyone! Your soul was basically forced on you too!

 

[buffyprops]

I would agree that The Shanshu WAS Angel's destiny...until he signed off on it.
I'd say that pretty much leaves it "up for grabs" to any other en-souled Vampire.

 

[ElmoHasAGun]

Umm hello Spike!?! The reason you got a soul is because you had a CHIP in your head which didnt allow you to kill anyone! Your soul was basically forced on you too!

Not so true. Yes, if Spike had never gotten the chip he would've never gotten his soul but a piece of hardware in his head didn't force him to get one. He could've asked that demon to take his chip out and he didn't.

Neither of them should get it. Really. They're both 100% deserving of it but they're so much cooler undead.

 

[FetalPig]

this is from the perspective of Buffy 1-7 and Angel 1-5

Does the prophecy say anything bout the way the Champion lives their life?

The way i remember it ( I haven't checked) is that at a certain point in time a Vampire with a soul plays a pivotal role in an (the?) Apocalypse. It's not even clear whether it's for good or bad. So i don't see how it can belong to anyone. It's up for ... well not grabs exactly but it depends upon future actions.

Angel signing away his rights to this which further complicates things not to mention the havoc wrought by Sahjan going back and rewriting the prophecies (well ok .. to mention it).

 

[The Unspoken]

Yeah, Angel deserves it. Because Spike didn't spend an entire century lamenting his crimes but simply decided to do good right away. It would be terrible if someone like that was the subject of the Shanshu prophecy. Terrible, I tell ya.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

You know what would be funny? If, at the last minute, they introduce some random, 3rd souled vamp and he gets Shanshu'd. I would totally crack up over that (granted, I haven't read the comics, but still. That would be pretty damn funny).