Supersymetry - I don't get it.

[nerd4hire]

Supersymetry was on reruns tonight. There's some stuff I never fully got about that one.

Fred discovers Professor Seidel was the one who sent her to Pylea. She wants a)Vengence b)justice c)to protect others from the same thing happening to them d)it's complicated, but a mixture of all 3. She gets Wesley to help her. She doesn't want Gunn to help her, because she doesn't think he's capable. She says it's one of the things she loves about him. She's quite comfortable with Wesley helping though, and Wesley doesn't seem to mind what that suggests. Her plan is to send Seidel through a portal into a Hell dimension. Gunn stops her, because he doesn't want her living with the deed. He kills Seidel in cold blood, and throws him into the portal. I'm assuming Gunn kills him first, to save him the torture of existing in a Hell dimension, at the same time preventing Fred from doing evil by doing it himself.

OK, so after that Fred falls immediately out of love with Gunn. Why? I thought he was being pretty noble.

 

[Wicked]

Bare with me, Im trying to work this out as I type.

Maybe she really did believe Gunn wasnt that person. Sop when he killed the professor, she realised he wasnt the man she loved.
However she knew that Wes was that kind of guy so she didnt mind him helping.

Or maybe the problem she had was not letting her do it herself.

Or (lots of ors 🙂) maybe it was the fact that Gunn actually killed him first. She and Wes werent technically going to murder him.

 

[Lyri]

Or (lots of ors 🙂) maybe it was the fact that Gunn actually killed him first. She and Wes werent technically going to murder him.

hmm, that actually kinda makes sense to me. Fred and Wes were going to send the Prof through the portal so that he could experience the same thing that he put Fred and all those others through. But Gunn killed him, and prevented him from knowing what that felt like. maybe it wasn't just the killing that turned Fred from Gunn, but the fact that he stopped her from getting the justice she thought she deserved?

 

[goldenboy]

Yeah, you guys are onto something I'm sure.

So...maybe Fred felt cheated, violated in a weird way, that Gunn stole something very basic, primal from her (revenge). She feels a general sense of resentment now"”that Gunn's trying to control her, prevent her from being herself, or something.

Or possibly Fred sees herself in Gunn's actions and she's actually appalled by her own rage and vengeful feelings. She can't look at him from that point on without feeling guilt, disgust at her own behavior and maybe a little shock about what Gunn was willing to do for her.

Or, maybe a combo of all these things, going back and forth her head. Maybe she's not even fully aware of these feelings...just feels a general "wrongness". Hmm.

 

[SpikedBuffy]

I just watched this episode today.

Not just that she felt cheated that she didn't get to finish the job herself.

I always took it as Fred was just so upset that Gunn ended up killing the Professor for her, even though he didn't have it in him. Gunn gave up so much for her, and she wasn't really ready for that. Do you get what I'm saying?

 

[Xin Rong]

I would have to go with the view that she didnt think he was that sort of person, or at least she didnt want him to be so when she realised he was it shocked her out of love because he was no longer the man she had fallen in love with, afterall as said by buffy herself killing people changes you

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I personally think its because he took something away from her.
Revenge is something personal and Gunn presumed to take it.
She wanted help to get to the point but she wanted to be the one to exact the revenge, thats why Wesley only helped her to a point, I mean if she wanted him to do it I know he would have at the time.

 

[Schillaci]

Hmm

I don't think I'm getting what you guys are getting.

I thought Fred was completely blinded by hatred and an unrestrainable, insuppressible need for revenge. Her lust for revenge was uncontrollable and it blocked her capacity for rational thought.

When she saw Gunn kill the professor she realised that that was essentially what she was about to do, become Seidel, a cold blooded killer.

It shocked her to realise she was capable of that, and that Gunn was capable of that. She had forced him to be an animal like Seidel.

The horror of realising that they were capable of murder tore them apart.

Like Faith said to Buffy, "Kill me, you become me".

 

[The Arcane]

I always thought that it was less about love and a lot more to do with guilt. Fred knew that she was responsible for Gunn doing something that he was absolutely ashamed of, simply because he wanted to prevent her from taking the guilt of the murder on herself. I don't think that she ever stopped loving Gunn but the shame of causing him to do what he did for her forced them apart.

 

[Randy Giles]

I really don't think Fred falls out of love with Gunn because he takes away her revenge. I think it was a mix of a few things:

1.) Gunn snapped the guy's neck without second thought.
2.) Fred was scared by how much the rage had consumed her. I think after it was over she regretted seekign revenge like that.
3.) She saw how they could both take a human life given certain circumstances.

I think it was all just too much to handle...

Besides, who cares if she falls out of love with Gunn. I didn't like them as a couple anyway.

 

[alexa]

Interesting thread. I'm watching season 3 of Angel atm so it sort of pisses me off that this happened to them. I think Supersymetry is the only time I don't like Fred. I get why she'd be pissed but then the end of their relationship becomes her fault for wanting vengeance and not thinking of the end result. It's sweet the way Gun is still willing to give up his life for her in season 5.