Surely the most underrated season...

[Merrick]

Hey guys,

I'm new here today, so be nice!

Thought I'd take a wander over to the boards and decided to put a post about one of my favourite seasons - season 5.

I am of the opinion that Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 5 is by far and away the most underrated season in the entire canon. Obviously these things are all subjective but IMO five is dope! Okay, Dawn is annoying, but every season has an annoying character (usually Huffy, er sorry I meant Buffy) - but to me 5 starts well, good plot twist, Giles buys the Magic Box, Riley leaves, Spike develops well, Harmony (whom I adore) returns, The Body is a masterclass in television and The Gift is a great, great finale. Season five also has some of the most epic fights and episodes ever in Buffy. And then we have Glory who, and I may get chastised for this, I LOVE. She's effectively Cordelia-lite and replaces the hole that Cordy left when she moved on to pastures new.

Don't get me wrong 5 has its flaws, but overall I consider it highly underrated and I feel it geta a bad rap from fans. It's comfortably better than 4, 6 and 1 (though I'm very fond of 1) and is easily the equal of 3 in my book.

What do y'all think?

And what are you favourite/most underrated seasons?😀

 

[Still a Scoobie]

I like 5, and it's better, as you say, than others such as 4. I can't agree it's better than 3, though. 3 and 6 are locked in intense warfare in my heart for title of best season of any show ever.

The one I feel is most under-rated is S1, actually. It's not the best but I feel it sometimes doesn't get its dues.

I love Glory too, and you're right, we did miss Cordelia. I didn't realise how much BtVS missed Cordelia 'til I started re-watching Angel.

---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

Oh, also:

Welcome to the Boards.

 

[Xin Rong]

Hey guys,

I'm new here today, so be nice!

Thought I'd take a wander over to the boards and decided to put a post about one of my favourite seasons - season 5.

I am of the opinion that Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 5 is by far and away the most underrated season in the entire canon. Obviously these things are all subjective but IMO five is dope! Okay, Dawn is annoying, but every season has an annoying character (usually Huffy, er sorry I meant Buffy) - but to me 5 starts well, good plot twist, Giles buys the Magic Box, Riley leaves, Spike develops well, Harmony (whom I adore) returns, The Body is a masterclass in television and The Gift is a great, great finale. Season five also has some of the most epic fights and episodes ever in Buffy. And then we have Glory who, and I may get chastised for this, I LOVE. She's effectively Cordelia-lite and replaces the hole that Cordy left when she moved on to pastures new.

Don't get me wrong 5 has its flaws, but overall I consider it highly underrated and I feel it geta a bad rap from fans. It's comfortably better than 4, 6 and 1 (though I'm very fond of 1) and is easily the equal of 3 in my book.

What do y'all think?

And what are you favourite/most underrated seasons?😀

I'd agree that it is the best post high-school season, and I think that it might trump certain parts of season 1/2, but, in general, I wouldn't say it was the best, mainly because of the flaws in it: Riley being one of the biggest; Spike being in love with Buffy and that whole arc; the knights of Byzantium; the council; Buffy hearting Ben, and the general annoyingness of Dawn.

I'm not saying that the other seasons didn't have flaws, but for the most part, they don't seem to pervade the overall series to the extent that their counterparts do in season 5.

Before I'm hit with responses, I just want to reiterate that I love season 5, and the final few episodes are probably in my top five favorite episodes of all time, but that love doesn't extend to the season as a whole.

For the most underrated scene, I'd go with Willow going badass on Glory, although I'm not sure if that scene qualifies as I think the general consensus of fans is that it's awesome! 🙂

 

[thetopher]

I think Season 5 is the best non-school based one, better than 4 and 6 anyway. There are plots I don't like, but there's something about the dialogue and character interactions that seems so fresh after the muddling of S4.
Sure there's Riley, Glory (annoying Big Bad, and boy is she stupid.), the stupidly illogicla Knights Of Byzantium, Joyce's death (which is very sad, not annoying by the way)
Dawn takes some getting used to but I end up liking her.
But the Scoobies, even Anya come into their own here. I love the Magic Box and the fact Giles owns it, Xander growing up and Willow/Tara.

I actually like Spike's character development this season as he goes from 'third wheel' to part of the team. He gets some good moments (and then Season 6 happens...)

I'm puzzled as to anyone could find Buffy the most annoying character this season though.
Sure, she can be annoying sometimes, but I think Season 5 is her best Season, she takes on a God and wins. She takes on the council, she sacrifices herself for her sister and the world. She loses her boyfriend and her Mom but still has to strength to keep on going.
And she looks awesome doing it.

I'm not sure anybody thinks Season 5 doesn't get its due.

 

[Merrick]

To be fair, it's difficult for me to argue with any of these points.

Buffy's least annoying season is five, but she still grates on me.

Five is by no means my favourite season, that honour is reserved for the brilliant Season 2. I agree it is the best post-HS season - though to me personally it holds a higher place in my heart than Season 1 or 3. Season 3 SHOULD be the best season, all the ingredients are there, but I just find it too inconsistent and it takes too long to get going throughout the first half - second half is flawless!

1 is underrated and I do have a soft spot for it - flawed as it is - though i think five surpasses it.

I was trying to think of the main reason I like five so much and I've come up with it: Anya.

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------

Still A Scooby - I'm intrigued as to why you love 6 so dearly? Not knocking, merely curious. In my view 6 is easily the weakest of the 7 seasons so I'm just wondering why you hold it in such reverence?

 

[Xin Rong]

To be fair, it's difficult for me to argue with any of these points.

Buffy's least annoying season is five, but she still grates on me.

Five is by no means my favourite season, that honour is reserved for the brilliant Season 2. I agree it is the best post-HS season - though to me personally it holds a higher place in my heart than Season 1 or 3. Season 3 SHOULD be the best season, all the ingredients are there, but I just find it too inconsistent and it takes too long to get going throughout the first half - second half is flawless!

1 is underrated and I do have a soft spot for it - flawed as it is - though i think five surpasses it.

I was trying to think of the main reason I like five so much and I've come up with it: Anya.

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------

Still A Scooby - I'm intrigued as to why you love 6 so dearly? Not knocking, merely curious. In my view 6 is easily the weakest of the 7 seasons so I'm just wondering why you hold it in such reverence?

I would say Buffy's least annoying Season is 1/2/3, which is why I like them so much, post high school I find it difficult to like 'Buffy' and considering it's her show, this has a significant impact on the way that I view them.

I love your Anya comment, out of all the characters in Season 5, Anya definitely has the most simultaneously entertaining and interesting character development: she definitely goes from a Cordy replacement to become a fully pledged, and wonderful, character in her own right.

 

[Still a Scoobie]

Still A Scooby - I'm intrigued as to why you love 6 so dearly? Not knocking, merely curious. In my view 6 is easily the weakest of the 7 seasons so I'm just wondering why you hold it in such reverence?

Oddly perhaps, it's because it depresses me. The ending; Tara dying, Willow breaking down. I don't get hugely emotional with TV shows but S6 of Buffy always gets me and that means it was written and acted fantastically. My favourite episodes are all in other seasons and if someone were to ask what makes Buffy great I so wouldn't point them to the last couple of seasons (which is why I think S3 is more likely to win my internal battle).

Mainly it's just that I love Tillow and the whole Tara and Willow storyline is beautiful, even if it's full of disaster.

Also, Spike and Buffy don't annoy me as much as they do some people, even if I slightly prefer Angel, and Xander's good that season and of course there's Anya. Also I like the trio, even if they are probably the feeblest big bads ever.

In my opinion 7 is the weakest, and this plays a role because if I think of the end of Buffy, I tend to think more about S6 which gives it the nostalgia factor.

 

[thetopher]

Well, I like Anya fine in Seasons 4 and 5, (5 is her top season, easily) she really grows and comes into her own. But boy, she grates later on. She just stops developing and then reverses her development to become a nothing character...I really hate that. 😡

And I like Buffy fine as a character up until S6 (with a small dip in S4 when she does get aself-involved/up herself)), the whole depressed/bad decisions arc just rankles me, and while she kinda gets back to normal in S7, she annoys in too many others way by then. 🙁

I love Season 3 though, its the perfect 'first half lays the groundwork for the second half' example, with both great stand-alone eps and a really solid arc plus the best Season Big Bad. (The Mayor/Faith)
Other Seasons usually lack one of these three things. S4 had the great stand alone eps. S5 had the really solid arc. S2 had the great big bad. (Spike/Drusilla/Angelus)

 

[Blaze]

I think s6 is the most underrated along with s1. Every where I go people hate on s6, although I'm not sure if it's underrated of if it's people just not liking it. With s1, definitely underrated since it's the general consensus that it's a good season, but no one ever picks it as a favorite, or it doesn't get the credit it warrants.

s5, I've only heard good things about it, so I don't think it's necessarily underrated. People seem to appreciate it for what it is.

 

[Merrick]

Interesting Blaze and I do agree about Season 1.

Strangely I only ever hear people slate Season 5, perhaps it's the company I keep!

I just can't get with 6 - I don't know, I've tried, I just can't. :-(

 

[Blaze]

Interesting Blaze and I do agree about Season 1.

Strangely I only ever hear people slate Season 5, perhaps it's the company I keep!

I just can't get with 6 - I don't know, I've tried, I just can't. :-(

It's interesting that you hear people bash s5 the most, but again the only place I talk to about Buffy is here. This place might not be in agreement with the general public opinion because were pretty obsessed, most often much more critical and attentive to details than the casual viewer. Overall s5 is pretty strong, maybe not as strong as s2-3, but stronger than 4, and most people here will agree with that regardless of their favorite season.

About s6, I think it's hit or miss for a lot of people. s6 It's my favorite, but as far as writing goes I think s3 was probably the strongest overall and s7 the weakest. But even the weakest can be the most fun.

To me, an underrated season is a season that has exceptional writing and stories, but is disliked by most. This is why re-thinking it, s6 is probably not underrated because the story was not award wining by any means, even if I found it to be best in regards to my personal taste. To me, s1 is a different story because the first season was ground-breaking, its the type of opening to a show that comes once in a blue moon, and should be more recognized for the staple that it is.

 

[Evil Angelus 95]

I'm kinda surprised people say this season is underrated. I think it's one of the best seasons, if not arguably, the best. Everything about it is just utterly great and fantastic. 🙂

Not to mention, my babies Willow & Tara got their first on screen kiss in "The Body" 🙂

 

[Xin Rong]

I'm kinda surprised people say this season is underrated. I think it's one of the best seasons, if not arguably, the best. Everything about it is just utterly great and fantastic. 🙂

Not to mention, my babies Willow & Tara got their first on screen kiss in "The Body" 🙂

That's atrocious, how did I not know that, as if it took so long.

 

[Still a Scoobie]

I'm kinda surprised people say this season is underrated. I think it's one of the best seasons, if not arguably, the best. Everything about it is just utterly great and fantastic. 🙂

Not to mention, my babies Willow & Tara got their first on screen kiss in "The Body" 🙂

That's atrocious, how did I not know that, as if it took so long.

I prefer to think the first onscreen kiss was in S4, I can't remember the name of the ep now but the one where they first officially get together (EDIT. New Moon Rising: I thought so, but didn't want to be wrong). Tara goes "you should be with the one you love", Willow says "I am", the candle goes out and they kiss. You can't see it but in my mind it happens and it's not off-screen, it's just in the dark. Take that, homophobic network guys. 😛

 

[Merrick]

Hahahahaha. Brilliant. As for the homophobic network guys - apparently the kiss in 5 the network were dead against according to Whedon. Apparently, he'd even cleared his desk and was going to pull the plug unless they ran with that scene and at the 11th hour they okayed it.

 

[Still a Scoobie]

Xin Rong agrees: You made me smile, I hope this somehow gets passed onto the homophobic network guys

Maybe I'll find out who they were and just write them all letters that just say "They kissed. Take that." No further explanation, just that and maybe a little rainbow flag in the corner.

---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------

Hahahahaha. Brilliant. As for the homophobic network guys - apparently the kiss in 5 the network were dead against according to Whedon. Apparently, he'd even cleared his desk and was going to pull the plug unless they ran with that scene and at the 11th hour they okayed it.

That does not surprise me at all. I love Tara and Willow's relationship as it is (I will not say "was") though and in a way the lack of physical stuff is what makes the relationship so sweet. I don't know if the decision by the network to limit their kissing and stuff was a deliberate attempt at institutionalised homophobia, but if so it backfired spectacularly. I've never seen a better (fictional) championing of same-sex relationships.

 

[nmcil12]

To be fair, it's difficult for me to argue with any of these points.

Buffy's least annoying season is five, but she still grates on me.

Five is by no means my favourite season, that honour is reserved for the brilliant Season 2. I agree it is the best post-HS season - though to me personally it holds a higher place in my heart than Season 1 or 3. Season 3 SHOULD be the best season, all the ingredients are there, but I just find it too inconsistent and it takes too long to get going throughout the first half - second half is flawless!

1 is underrated and I do have a soft spot for it - flawed as it is - though i think five surpasses it.

I was trying to think of the main reason I like five so much and I've come up with it: Anya.

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------

Still A Scooby - I'm intrigued as to why you love 6 so dearly? Not knocking, merely curious. In my view 6 is easily the weakest of the 7 seasons so I'm just wondering why you hold it in such reverence?

Speaking only for myself - it's a great divide between the earlier season 1-3 and the later season, in particular season 6 & 7. Season 4 & 5, for me were transition seasons.

The thematic material changed so drastically with season 6 and it demanded that the viewers approach the series from a much darker and mature mind set. Don't get me wrong, I don't refer to the maturity of the viewers, but to the material presented not only with the Buffy-Spike relationship but for all the characters. I personally have to make a distinction between the earlier seasons and season 5 is that transition point.

I liked season 5 much more than all the others up to season 6 and 7 and I also loved Glory which many fans hated a the Big Bad of the season. I liked the more risky choice of going with their first female Big Bad and having Glory as a superficial self-centered Goddess instead of a Super Goddess or Super Villain. Glory as Super Bitch wanting nothing than to destroy this world and all its population for no other reason that I Want To Go Home is, IMO, a great subversion of the Super Big Bad. Angel/Angelus with his Acathla send all to a hell dimension is the closes to this in the series.

I watched for the 17 year anniversary WTTHM - and it was great fun watching the first introduction of Buffy but watching only help emphasis the huge difference in the early seasons and those of 6 and 7.

There were great moments in season 5, as there are great moments for each season as the transition season I thought it was outstanding.

 

[Evil Angelus 95]

That's atrocious, how did I not know that, as if it took so long.

Well, that's how long it took. Thanks WB, you guys were really a help XD *Huffs*

I prefer to think the first onscreen kiss was in S4, I can't remember the name of the ep now but the one where they first officially get together (EDIT. New Moon Rising: I thought so, but didn't want to be wrong). Tara goes "you should be with the one you love", Willow says "I am", the candle goes out and they kiss. You can't see it but in my mind it happens and it's not off-screen, it's just in the dark. Take that, homophobic network guys. 😛

That's when their first kiss did happen, but it was off-screen. "The Body" is the first time we ever saw them kiss ON SCREEN. It definitely was a big moment for the ship.

Hahahahaha. Brilliant. As for the homophobic network guys - apparently the kiss in 5 the network were dead against according to Whedon. Apparently, he'd even cleared his desk and was going to pull the plug unless they ran with that scene and at the 11th hour they okayed it.

This is true. Joss literally threatened to quit.

Also, apparently the kiss was gonna be a lot more passionate. According to Amber Benson (Tara), "...we're talking saliva trails and everything."

 

[Still a Scoobie]

Evil Angelus 95 agrees: That's when it happened, but remember, I said first ON SCREEN kiss.

I contend that it was on-screen, just in the dark. 😛

 

[Evil Angelus 95]

I contend that it was on-screen, just in the dark. 😛

Fair enough 😛 Either way, they're still my babies <3