Lou
Scooby
That is a descriptive reference for someone who can relate. I couldn't relate. What are the chances that if you were telling me something that girl had said or thought that you would refer to her as "the chick in the wheelchair"?
That infamous Vogue cover...
- Thread starter palabravampiress
- Start date
Blondie Bear
Zydrate Addict
Lou
Scooby
TA DA! My poor nerve rattled friend who has more patience than a gaggle of nuns proves the point!
There is "descriptive" noticing of race, religion, sexuality and discriminatory noticing.
And where this girl is probably who she is today BECAUSE of being in a wheelchair, once you know her, it no longer becomes her. I doubt you see her everyday and think, "Great, here comes the gimp".
It IS possible to look at a picture of a friend (or a celebrity that you're used to seeing) and no longer see "black man" to just see "guy". I don't think it's necessarily PC, I think it's just human nature. I can think of many friends that my first impressions weren't good. They were scary, creepy looking, short, fat, bald...whatever. Now, when I see them, I just see and feel love.
It's not exactly not seeing color, it's more about seeing the person you recognize and know.
I think BotD is right that we shouldn't feel like we HAVE to look past people's differences from moment 1. And, we should realize that those differences are what made them who they are. But, I don't think people are deluding themselves to say they saw the picture and saw a guy and didn't see his color. He's famous, we "know" him and I think it's just nature that in those situations we naturally just see "person".
There is "descriptive" noticing of race, religion, sexuality and discriminatory noticing.
And where this girl is probably who she is today BECAUSE of being in a wheelchair, once you know her, it no longer becomes her. I doubt you see her everyday and think, "Great, here comes the gimp".
It IS possible to look at a picture of a friend (or a celebrity that you're used to seeing) and no longer see "black man" to just see "guy". I don't think it's necessarily PC, I think it's just human nature. I can think of many friends that my first impressions weren't good. They were scary, creepy looking, short, fat, bald...whatever. Now, when I see them, I just see and feel love.
It's not exactly not seeing color, it's more about seeing the person you recognize and know.
I think BotD is right that we shouldn't feel like we HAVE to look past people's differences from moment 1. And, we should realize that those differences are what made them who they are. But, I don't think people are deluding themselves to say they saw the picture and saw a guy and didn't see his color. He's famous, we "know" him and I think it's just nature that in those situations we naturally just see "person".
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
As a colorblind person, (in the I say "look at the pretty blue house" when the house is green sort of way) I find this talk of color to be all a buncha whooey. Sidenote: I also find calling the act of looking past color "colorblindness" to be not only whooey, but also to make searching for scholarships really hard.
I hate how everyone assumes you're being racist if you do mention color and also racist if you don't mention it. I mean, come on! People come in, what? Three shades of brown? At least that's how I see it. We're all sorta tan-colored. Personally, I avoid mentioning the color of anything whenever possible because I have learned not to trust my eyes when it comes to that. I've seen people who identify as black who look no darker than the average "white" person. Likewise, I've seen people who identify as white who look, to me, darker than some black people. Throw in every shade of brown in between, and you've got a very confused colorblind Palabra.
With that as my experience, I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding to supress your perception of color. I find my perception untrustworthy because I honestly have faulty color perception, so even if I do notice color, I tend to be shy about identifying it within hearing of others. Maybe others find their perception faulty because they're fed so much garbage from one side or the other that their heads are spinning and they'd rather focus on the bazillion other things that make up a person than on skin color. I think that should be okay. I don't think it should be considered racist or wrong to ignore race. I don't think it has to enter into the discussion all the time or be a defining characterstic. As long as we take pains to honor it or identify based on it, then I think it will continue to be a divisive and discriminatory concept. For scholarship searching purposes, I wish we didn't call it "colorblindness," but I definitely prefer a world in which people look past it completely to one in which we fixate on it like it is somehow a more important trait than hair color or eye color or height or weight. I think we all need to take a chill pill when it comes to race... and maybe I need to loan my actual colorblindess out to some people and let them see what the world looks like when you really can't see color.
Stepping off my soapbox now. I just hate it when people make other people feel bad for looking past race. I feel like that's a step in the right direction. And besides, some of us really can't see it.
P.S. May I please have the term used to describe my actual and physical inability to see the normal spectrum of color back from the PC police? Pretty please? Or am I Shade Perception Challenged or something now?
I hate how everyone assumes you're being racist if you do mention color and also racist if you don't mention it. I mean, come on! People come in, what? Three shades of brown? At least that's how I see it. We're all sorta tan-colored. Personally, I avoid mentioning the color of anything whenever possible because I have learned not to trust my eyes when it comes to that. I've seen people who identify as black who look no darker than the average "white" person. Likewise, I've seen people who identify as white who look, to me, darker than some black people. Throw in every shade of brown in between, and you've got a very confused colorblind Palabra.
With that as my experience, I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding to supress your perception of color. I find my perception untrustworthy because I honestly have faulty color perception, so even if I do notice color, I tend to be shy about identifying it within hearing of others. Maybe others find their perception faulty because they're fed so much garbage from one side or the other that their heads are spinning and they'd rather focus on the bazillion other things that make up a person than on skin color. I think that should be okay. I don't think it should be considered racist or wrong to ignore race. I don't think it has to enter into the discussion all the time or be a defining characterstic. As long as we take pains to honor it or identify based on it, then I think it will continue to be a divisive and discriminatory concept. For scholarship searching purposes, I wish we didn't call it "colorblindness," but I definitely prefer a world in which people look past it completely to one in which we fixate on it like it is somehow a more important trait than hair color or eye color or height or weight. I think we all need to take a chill pill when it comes to race... and maybe I need to loan my actual colorblindess out to some people and let them see what the world looks like when you really can't see color.
Stepping off my soapbox now. I just hate it when people make other people feel bad for looking past race. I feel like that's a step in the right direction. And besides, some of us really can't see it.
P.S. May I please have the term used to describe my actual and physical inability to see the normal spectrum of color back from the PC police? Pretty please? Or am I Shade Perception Challenged or something now?
L
Lou
I like Shade Perception Challanged or how about Color Spectrum Perception Challenged? OOH! Color Spectrum Perception DISORDER...then we could start a foundation for you!
Crazy Flakes
Velma
At first, I didn't get it, either. But I've come to a simple conclusion. It seems like almost anything involving a minority that could possibly have any negative connotations is offensive. I was watching the news the other day, and they were talking about how Barack Obama said something about the "average white person," then asked how people would respond if Hilary said "average black person." I'm almost 100% sure that if any white presidential candidate said "average black person," it'd be a national incident. The fact that someone found some perfectly normal magazine cover offensive is just ridiculous!
definition of insane
Hostile 17
Yeah, I didn't get it. I have no interest in basketball other than the occassional attempt to shoot hoops and I have practically no interest in models other than the whole bitchiness, catfighting stuff that America's Next Top Model has taught me to perceive. So I really didn't get how even the King Kong reference was supposed to offend me. I guess I'm just not smart enough.
On this whole PC/racism/tolerance/perception/whatever thing here, yeah in a visualised world, the easiest way to describe someone by how they look makes sense. To me though, to define someone by the way they look is kinda nuts. Political correctness is a pain in the ass and means that some people can't tell the difference between describing someone and defining someone. I mean, for crying out loud, kids at school aren't allowed to sing "Baa, Baa Black Sheep" anymore because it might offend the black community, and you can't call fairy penguins, "Fairy" penguins because it might offend the gay community? Are you serious? Did anyone even bother asking them if they cared?
Basically, if someone were to try and describe me to someone it would probably be "that chubby Asian girl" and that doesn't offend me. It's when they say "Hey, chubby Asian girl, go back to your own country" where they might end up with a fist in their face if they continue down the same vein. There's a history to everyone which you don't see unless you really look and listen and such and if people stop trying to type people but just what they see I think the world might be a slightly better place.
As for tolerance? Oh, how I hate that word. Tolerance implies that you're merely dealing with something because you can't figure out how to get rid of it. Tolerance is a lazy person's attempt at accepting something that affects them. I wish people would stop talking about tolerance like it's something that the human race should strive for. It should be about acceptance.
Okay, so I've had a tiny(ish) disjointed rant and now I forgot about what my point was gonna be. Maybe I didn't have one.
On this whole PC/racism/tolerance/perception/whatever thing here, yeah in a visualised world, the easiest way to describe someone by how they look makes sense. To me though, to define someone by the way they look is kinda nuts. Political correctness is a pain in the ass and means that some people can't tell the difference between describing someone and defining someone. I mean, for crying out loud, kids at school aren't allowed to sing "Baa, Baa Black Sheep" anymore because it might offend the black community, and you can't call fairy penguins, "Fairy" penguins because it might offend the gay community? Are you serious? Did anyone even bother asking them if they cared?
Basically, if someone were to try and describe me to someone it would probably be "that chubby Asian girl" and that doesn't offend me. It's when they say "Hey, chubby Asian girl, go back to your own country" where they might end up with a fist in their face if they continue down the same vein. There's a history to everyone which you don't see unless you really look and listen and such and if people stop trying to type people but just what they see I think the world might be a slightly better place.
As for tolerance? Oh, how I hate that word. Tolerance implies that you're merely dealing with something because you can't figure out how to get rid of it. Tolerance is a lazy person's attempt at accepting something that affects them. I wish people would stop talking about tolerance like it's something that the human race should strive for. It should be about acceptance.
Okay, so I've had a tiny(ish) disjointed rant and now I forgot about what my point was gonna be. Maybe I didn't have one.
B
Blondie Bear
[No message]
Blondie Bear
Zydrate Addict
Dlou: No, I don't think that (though the "oh great" part does kind of creep in because she's one of my more challenging students).
I think that in a society that, as I've already mentioned, encourages a victim mentality, anything that the mainstream culture does or thinks (which in this country is the middle-ish class white male) must be offensive by nature. Someone already brought up Obama; he came right out and SAID that white people can't help being racist because it's been bred into them. We've already seen what happens if a white person makes a similarly structured statement (for example, AND I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS SO DON'T JUMP ON ME, "Black people can't help being kinda dumb; they're closer to monkeys than people, you know"). But he got away with it because, as a minority, he is obviously oppressed and a victim and all sorts of stuff (even though he makes more money in a year than I've seen in my entire life).
I think that in a society that, as I've already mentioned, encourages a victim mentality, anything that the mainstream culture does or thinks (which in this country is the middle-ish class white male) must be offensive by nature. Someone already brought up Obama; he came right out and SAID that white people can't help being racist because it's been bred into them. We've already seen what happens if a white person makes a similarly structured statement (for example, AND I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS SO DON'T JUMP ON ME, "Black people can't help being kinda dumb; they're closer to monkeys than people, you know"). But he got away with it because, as a minority, he is obviously oppressed and a victim and all sorts of stuff (even though he makes more money in a year than I've seen in my entire life).
TabulaRasa
Buffy Girl
I ddin't make the connection. I didn't bother me any. Even after seeing the Kong photo I was like..ok so what. It still didn't bother me. If it offended anyone else, I am sorry for that.