That Old Gang of Mine...

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Sunnydale Siren

Scooby
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terrible episode, makes my all time W0RST list.

perhaps hiring a better actor to play "Gio" would've helped.

Along with a better s/l for this Gunn-centered eppy.

everytime Khalil Kain opened his mouth, wanted to hit the mute button. Gunn annoyed me as well.
 
The writers also mention in a couple of the Season 3 commentaries what a horrible episode it was. I've watched it three times and I never understood why Gio ran away from Miami or what the point of his character was.
 
caritas08 said:
The writers also mention in a couple of the Season 3 commentaries what a horrible episode it was. I've watched it three times and I never understood why Gio ran away from Miami or what the point of his character was.
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Lorne dropped that little tidbit about Gio, but it wasn't explored any further.

from a s/l standpoint, the character was a waste of DEAD TREES.
 
I didn't think it was that bad.
I mean, I understand where you're coming from but i've seen worse and it was nice that they finally did something with the whole Gunn's gang thing because they just kinda left it hanging at the end of season 2.
Although, honestly I think the real reason I don't hate this episode is because I really love Fred in it 😛
 
C
charmingslayer
[No message]
Agreed. Pretty much just a filler episode, I think. And of course, to give us some background on Gunn.

Is this the episode in which we learn that Gunn sold his soul for a truck? That always cracked me up. What a doofus.
 
white avenger
white avenger
Obviouslym my dear, you have no concept of the bond that a good ol' boy can form with his Cowboy Cadillac.
It was the first episode where I noticed Wes was developing a thing for Fred. He's very protective of her in Caritas and I think part of his face off with Gunn at the end was because she was put in danger.
 
I really liked this episode. I loved seeing it come down to old or new gang for Gunn.
Did Wes threaten to fire Gunn at the end of this??
I did really hate Gio too, so annoying and narrowminded. I felt sorry for Gunns old best friend though, it really hurt him to see Gunn turn his back on him.
 
I liked this episode. Sure it wasn't the best, but I don't think it's a bad one. Maybe the scene in Caritas went on a bit, although I liked the idea behind it. But I suppose this was just an excuse to use Gunn, since his character is ignored a lot of the time.
 
I'll just say that I like the idea of the episode but it just didn't work out as well as it could. Much like Terminator 3. 😉
 
anyalover17 said:
This episode was lame. And I hate Gunn. I dunno why, but he just gets on my nerves.
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Really?

I don't dislike Gunn, but at this point he's kinda just "there" for me. Like a stage prop.

I'm hoping to see the character developed more, as i continue watching the show.
 
Sunnydale Siren said:
Really?

I don't dislike Gunn, but at this point he's kinda just "there" for me. Like a stage prop.

I'm hoping to see the character developed more, as i continue watching the show.
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Yeah, the "stage prop" thing about him is half the reason I don't like him! And he's just a boring character, IMO. And he's too bald. XD
 
This episode did give us probably the most innocent demon ever which was The Big Gulp Demon. My wife get sad daily, thinking about the poor guy. It has been months since we've watched that episode. Out of all the great episodes we've watched this is the one moment she remembers the best.

Big hulking demon slowly lumbers along a sewer tunnel. Loud slurping noises coming from the demon. Its caught in a beam of light, and turns around looking like a "deer in the headlights" showing it's been drinking a Big Gulp.

"Hello? - Who's there please?"

Poor thing never had a chance.
 
IDoDoodle said:
This episode did give us probably the most innocent demon ever which was The Big Gulp Demon. My wife get sad daily, thinking about the poor guy. It has been months since we've watched that episode. Out of all the great episodes we've watched this is the one moment she remembers the best.

Big hulking demon slowly lumbers along a sewer tunnel. Loud slurping noises coming from the demon. Its caught in a beam of light, and turns around looking like a "deer in the headlights" showing it's been drinking a Big Gulp.

"Hello? - Who's there please?"

Poor thing never had a chance.
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I love that dude, it made me so sad that he died 🙁
 
Agreed on the Big Gulp demon; just thinking about it makes my heart hurt, no matter how trivial that seems.

I just watched this episode recently, and honestly, I found it pretty boring. And very predictable. Generally, I have my suspicions as to the answer to the "mystery" presented in each episode, but dang, this was obvious -- oh, Gunn's having confrontations with his old crew and their newest member, who believes that all demons are bad and deserve to be killed? Hmmm, I wonder who has been killing these innocent demons...?

Gio's character pretty much sucked, and like mentioned above, it was never addressed WHY he ran from Miami. Like... okay, why even mention it at all? I get he's a pretty bad guy already, thanks! 😛

I like Gunn, but I don't think this episode gave any validity to a background story or even mentioned one at all, for that matter. All I saw was the strained relationship between Gunn and his old friends, which was already established.
 
THAT OLD GANG OF MINE (anyone else keep expecting Gunn to break into a number from Sweet Charity?)

The Good;
Angel apologising to Merl is hilarious but this is Gunn's ep. Love Fred singing at Caritas and she shows some steel for the first time.

The Bad;
Evidence bags. Hmmm? Are we on CSI or something? Weird how they appear this week as an important part of the plot but then we never see them again.

Best line:
Fred; "Oh. Oh! Ohhhhhh!" (all in the delivery)

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The killing of the balancing entity is particularly gruesome

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Human's bad, demons, well if not good not inherently evil

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tattoo; 8,

Cheap Angel; 7

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 10
Wes: 6
Gunn; 3
Lorne; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 13
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 2

Kills: one demon for Gunn
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 28 vamps, 40 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 7 demons+1 vamp
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 8 vamps+ 6 demons.
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 6

Characters killed:
40

Recurring characters killed; goodbye Merl. Gunn is still haunted by killing his sister which you can't blame him for.
7;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat; Gunn with a shotgun. He seems to object to the gang using Uzis but under his leadership they didn't hesitate to use a flamethrower.
Wes; 3
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Angel and the Furies
Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

Kinky dinky:
It's implied that Angel beds the three Furies (genuine characters from Greek mythology and very popular on TV at the time also turning up on Xena and Charmed, Piper even becomes one for a while). Singly or all three sisters at the same time? (Every man's ultimate fantasy? Or would that include their milfy mom joining in as well?) He's now happy to do so as after Darla he knows he won't lose his soul because he doesn't love them. Of course this is what we all assume. I read a very funny fanfic once where we learn that the Furies actually dig Angel due to his exquisite foot massage technique.

Captain Subtext;
CC describes Fred as 'sweet and adorable'. Lorne describes Gunn as 'sweetie'. The Furies tell Cordelia she is not equipped to pay this debt but I once read a rather good fanfic on the subject which ended in the words "MMMMmmmmm Cordelia!". Mmmmmmmmmmmm, an Angel fanfic - FanFiction.Net (don't worry, non adult) What exactly did Rondell flee from in Florida? Who is the girl who trusted him to the end? Someone he betrayed or someone who he couldn't save?

Know the face, different character; 3

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
Wes saves Fred in Caritas. Wes' new image makes him look like some form of student teacher or something. Surely shooting Lorne would do him no harm if cutting his head off doesn't kill him? One demon keeps saying "Oh god", the other says "He's not listening", weird that demons refer to god.
Now, are Rondell and the guys right or wrong? When they raid Caritas they kill at least one vamp and a babyeating demon, it's hard to say that's really wrong? The problem is they don't distinguish as AI do. The ending is probably as good as you can get in this dilemma. Interesting that Wes warns Gunn about divided loyalties a subject he's going to learn all about later in the season.
Marks out of 10; 7/10
 
Not my favourite episode, as Gunn is my least liked character (so shoot me) so I give this about 6/10.
 
I don't think it was that bad, though when I started to watch it, I thought it was going to be very bad, but it wasn't.
I totally loved the furies: "Mmm.. Angel..."
 
I thought this episode was alright - very suspensful in its third act with the Mexican standoff! Gio's background was sketchy but I assumed that he failed to protect a girl in Miami and took out his anger on every demon as his redemption - or he found out his girlfriend was a demon and killed her... I don't know, it was an error in the writing but t'was very satisfying seeing his head get bitten off. CRUNCH!
 
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