The 1st First and the 2nd First

B

Buffanator

got Spike?
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I looked around but couldn't find a thread about this... soooo..... 😉

The first time we were introduced to The First was was it tried to convince Angel to kill himself. The First (as Jenny Calendar)was able to TOUCH Angel.

Yet in S-7, which I lovingly refer to as The 2nd First ... when the arc was all about The First... The First was NOT able to touch anyone.

Major f-up on the writers' part? What else could it be? Or is there "a theory" in your pretty little heads, dancing around, ready to pounce? :lmao:
 
J
Jersh
You should read my posts more thoroughly next time.
I don't know too. I guess, it's not major f-up writing because the "can't touch anything" is one of biggest points of season 7. I think they should just use other name for this evil. Maybe, The One, The Nothing, The Unfeel, etc. 😀

Oh, I have to add that I've noticed for a while that this 2nd First can make a glog-glog sounds of shoes when Buffy-First wears shoes with heels.
- First, when The First and Caleb played around in the vineyard. The First imitated that girl in white dress and Caleb killed her. She laid on the ground and transformed to Buffy. She stood up and you'll hear 'glog-glog' noise.
- Second, when Buffy-First done talking with Caleb, she walked up the stairs in the underground cave in the vineyard. Again with the 'glog-glog' noise.

p.s. Sorry I forgot which episodes it is. ^^
 
white avenger
white avenger
Plus, Caleb was apparently able to cut the girl in white. Of course, that might have just been an illusion, sort of special effects on the part of the First.
J
Jersh
How odd, but I don't know exactly what you're talking about.
I've noticed this, too. At first I thought that maybe the First in S3 just APPEARED to be touching Angel. But then I rewatched it, and no, there's definitely a point where she runs her fingers through his hair, and you can see the hair move..

So yeah. Pretty much, I think it was a mess-up before the writers realized that the First would be important later. 🙂
 
Drusilla was Spike's lover, she wouldn't harm him.
The First wanted Spike to fight on its side, so it used that vampire to beat him senseless so he would join the bad side again.
The First doesn't fight, it uses its powers and vampires to fight for it.
Notice how the first didn't physically harm anyone, it used other beings to do it.

And yes, it cannot touch people who are living, and it never did.
Angel was touched because he wasn't living.
It goes the same for Spike.

Drusilla not touching Spike was probably a coincidence.
If you watch the episode closer, there might be a possibility that she did lay her hands on Spike for a second or two.
 
B
Buffanator
Nope... Drusilla as the First never touched Spike.
That's a really good question! I always assumed that when the first was "haunting" Angel and Spike it was visible to them through their minds. Ergo why nobody else could see the first in some situtations (like when Angel confronted Buffy in her bedroom, "Amends" or when Buffy sees Spike in the basement). If it was able to manipulate their minds into seeing it there, I suppose it wouldn't be a far stretch to fool their mind into making them believe something is touching them. And like has been said, maybe it can only haunt you like that if you're dead. Could explain why it could never touch the potentials/scooby gang.

But you bring up a good point too about it never doing the "dirty work" itself, even with the undead characters on the show. The First was supposed to be the ultimate evil, the thing opposite to the "Powers that Be", right? So if that's true maybe there's some golden rule that those forces (The First Evil and the Powers that Be) can only influence others' actions: not actually interfere with the world themselves. The first could convince Angel to kill himself-- manipulate his mind into seeing it and feeling it there-- but it wasn't actually able to physically harm him.

It's like The Powers That Be could send messages to Cordelia and send Guides/Oracles to deliver warnings and information, but they never did just swoop in and save the day themselves. Maybe it's the same kind of thing with the First Evil-- only it prefered a more direct approach when connecting with the beings on earth.
 
J
Jersh
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