doppelgänger2
Meh.
Yes, I agree. Is it really THAT important if she died in villians or not? If she died in Villians, she got re-charged again. If not, she was still the chosen one after dying in the gift. So...
The Chosen One (Pt.2)
- Thread starter Willow Rosenberg
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Jacklyn
Now a Scapenerd too...
I don't think your getting it Xx...a steady whine from a heart monitor is a flatline. It means her heart STOPPED-which, last I checked, meant death.
Just because Xander said "you're going to kill her" doesn't mean he knows anything. He's not a medical expert. The EMT that is my best friend has just chimed in-flatline means death-it doesn't mean that she can't be revived, which is probably what Xander meant by his comment. But it does mean death.
Just because Xander said "you're going to kill her" doesn't mean he knows anything. He's not a medical expert. The EMT that is my best friend has just chimed in-flatline means death-it doesn't mean that she can't be revived, which is probably what Xander meant by his comment. But it does mean death.
nerd4hire
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Flatline is the same thing as asystole, right?
In medicine, asystole is a state of no cardiac electrical activity, hence no contractions of the myocardium and no cardiac output or blood flow. Asystole is one of the conditions required for a medical practitioner to certify death.
Asystole : (noun)
1: absence of systole; failure of the ventricles of the heart to contract (usually caused by ventricular fibrillation) with consequent absence of the heart beat leading to oxygen lack and eventually to death
Now as I understand it flatlining can be described as heart death. The heart stops. You can still possibly be revived through medical means. Later, you can't be revived. I've heard that described as brain death.
Here's the thing though, if asystole death doesn't count in Villians, why does it count in the case of Kendra?
I'm with others though when they say, so what? You can disregard the whole villains thing, and it doesn't change anything.
After Willow and the Scoobs bring Buffy back in Bargaining, something happens. There is a "disruption in the Chosen line".
Buffy becomes re-inserted in that line, and in order for another slayer to be called Buffy has to die, or the line has to be changed again through the scythe. It's possible Faith might also have to die, but Buffy definitely has to, because every character in the show during Season 7, after Beljoxa's eye, either says so or behaves as if that's the way it is.
In medicine, asystole is a state of no cardiac electrical activity, hence no contractions of the myocardium and no cardiac output or blood flow. Asystole is one of the conditions required for a medical practitioner to certify death.
Asystole : (noun)
1: absence of systole; failure of the ventricles of the heart to contract (usually caused by ventricular fibrillation) with consequent absence of the heart beat leading to oxygen lack and eventually to death
Now as I understand it flatlining can be described as heart death. The heart stops. You can still possibly be revived through medical means. Later, you can't be revived. I've heard that described as brain death.
Here's the thing though, if asystole death doesn't count in Villians, why does it count in the case of Kendra?
I'm with others though when they say, so what? You can disregard the whole villains thing, and it doesn't change anything.
After Willow and the Scoobs bring Buffy back in Bargaining, something happens. There is a "disruption in the Chosen line".
Buffy becomes re-inserted in that line, and in order for another slayer to be called Buffy has to die, or the line has to be changed again through the scythe. It's possible Faith might also have to die, but Buffy definitely has to, because every character in the show during Season 7, after Beljoxa's eye, either says so or behaves as if that's the way it is.
Pythagore
All Hail Discordia!
We are moving into very metaphysical ground here.
Ok, we KNOW that Buffy flatlined. Even Xx, who opposes the idea that Buffy died in Villians, quoted the transcripts that says that heartmachines gives a steady whine (i.e. flatline, heart-death) - even though he/she doesn't seem to understand it her/himself. The big question, in that case, is "how long does a slayer have to be clinically dead to pass on the slayer-powers". Is a Near Death Experience enough? Hell, a lot of people has been dead for minutes before waking up again. Is that enough to pass the slayer-line to the next girl?
In the end of s5 Buffy dies, is buried and is dead for 147 days. In Prophecy Girl she is dead for a few minutes. In Villians, she is dead for a few seconds. But is it enough?
I am still going with the fact that the disruption happened in Bargaining, but I like the Villians-idea, though. I'm starting to doubt if it is worth to discuss anything with Xx, since she/he doesn't seem very aware of what he/she is talking about in the first place.
Ok, we KNOW that Buffy flatlined. Even Xx, who opposes the idea that Buffy died in Villians, quoted the transcripts that says that heartmachines gives a steady whine (i.e. flatline, heart-death) - even though he/she doesn't seem to understand it her/himself. The big question, in that case, is "how long does a slayer have to be clinically dead to pass on the slayer-powers". Is a Near Death Experience enough? Hell, a lot of people has been dead for minutes before waking up again. Is that enough to pass the slayer-line to the next girl?
In the end of s5 Buffy dies, is buried and is dead for 147 days. In Prophecy Girl she is dead for a few minutes. In Villians, she is dead for a few seconds. But is it enough?
I am still going with the fact that the disruption happened in Bargaining, but I like the Villians-idea, though. I'm starting to doubt if it is worth to discuss anything with Xx, since she/he doesn't seem very aware of what he/she is talking about in the first place.
ProphecyGirl
Scooby
a wee bit more of devils advocacy since i have a few moments
Of course how do we know the hospital machinery was working properly? perhaps it made a mistake in the whine. No one officially declared she was dead. Even through statement. And in a later episode Xander did say she died twice. It's improbable to think they'd flub that badly even with all the "consistency" errors people believe S. 7 to have sooooooo maybe she didn't die. Its definetly possible she didn't.
Of course how do we know the hospital machinery was working properly? perhaps it made a mistake in the whine. No one officially declared she was dead. Even through statement. And in a later episode Xander did say she died twice. It's improbable to think they'd flub that badly even with all the "consistency" errors people believe S. 7 to have sooooooo maybe she didn't die. Its definetly possible she didn't.
X
XxSlayerxX
Thank you for supporting my opinion, and pointing that out.
XxSlayerxX
The News Reporter
How do you know it he didn't notice the monitor.He knew Buffy was alive.So did Willow.Xander got scared with Will's spell.The moniter went flat cause of her spell.Xander thought she was killing her, but she wasn't.Willow was healing her.
Willow Rosenberg
I might be just like you!
The point is that no one knows therefore all we can do is rationalize our ideas. That's why no one else is claiming their idea to be "the correct answer".
SlayerThe
My
Ya know usually on a medical show when you hear that BEEP noise, thats when they start to get frantic and try to REVIVE the patient.
Boy, its getting a bit hostile.
I think the whole "brain dead" and "phyical death" is too far fetched. A physical death is just enough to activate the next Slayer, so I don't think a "brain death" counts.
I still say with that Buffy was re-inserted into the line in Season 6, though we are not definately sure about if Villains took her back out, but we know that in S7 she is the true Slayer and for some reason Faith doesn't hold the line anymore.
But thats odd isn't it? Faith having the line taken away from her. Wouldn't that be interesting if for the brief months that Buffy was dead, Faith was powerless.
I mean theres been theories for years that Buffy is the catalyst for the Slayer's power......
Boy, its getting a bit hostile.
I think the whole "brain dead" and "phyical death" is too far fetched. A physical death is just enough to activate the next Slayer, so I don't think a "brain death" counts.
I still say with that Buffy was re-inserted into the line in Season 6, though we are not definately sure about if Villains took her back out, but we know that in S7 she is the true Slayer and for some reason Faith doesn't hold the line anymore.
But thats odd isn't it? Faith having the line taken away from her. Wouldn't that be interesting if for the brief months that Buffy was dead, Faith was powerless.
I mean theres been theories for years that Buffy is the catalyst for the Slayer's power......
Pythagore
All Hail Discordia!
Hence, the disruption.Slayer said:
I am getting soooooooo tired of that word. "Disruption". *shudders*
I don't think we are getting anywhere. All we is left with is a bunch of various theories. Perhaps we should just summaries them in a FAQ, post them in a sticker and tell people not to bring the subject up again unless they got a new theory. 🙂
SlayerThe
My
Pythagore said:
Yeah, its not infinately debatable like certain subjects, Spike vs. Angel, whos better:Buffy or Faith.
But I guess thats why there are theories, because we don't know.
I'm tired of this debate, what can we debate next? Maybe the comparison between the Fang and Scooby Gangs as to who is best? C'mon people, give me some ideas here.
Pythagore
All Hail Discordia!
nerd4hire
Certified Uncloneable
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Pythagore said:
Yeah I've been a member here about 2 years. You should see how many threads I've seen on this subject.
I considered collecting them all, and the next time it comes up, just post the links.
The problem is the thread is often posted by someone who wants to tell you Faith is the real slayer. They aren't generally interested in reading anything that may contradict their opinion for some reason. They won't click the link.
That's another problem. If you just ignore the thread, the next thing you know you're dealing with a pack of newbies to the Buffyverse who are accepting what they read on the Faith fanatics thread as canon. It weaves through every other thread, so eventually you have to have the arguement off topic.
I've decided it's better to just challenge it, every time it comes up.
SlayerThe
My
Good point. I would hate to face a wild rapid group of miseducated Faith fans in packs.
I mean I don't see why other people use other sources or even "heard of" quotes when the truth is the transcripts. THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT PEOPLE, THE STUFF THAT HAPPENS IN THE EPISODE.
Not something you heard from a friend who only says Faith is the real slayer because he thinks Eliza is hot. Doesn't work that way.
You need proof to back up your theories. Then can could be taking seriously, if not too off the wall. But don't back your stuff up that isn't from the transcripts or from Joss's mouth.
I mean I don't see why other people use other sources or even "heard of" quotes when the truth is the transcripts. THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT PEOPLE, THE STUFF THAT HAPPENS IN THE EPISODE.
Not something you heard from a friend who only says Faith is the real slayer because he thinks Eliza is hot. Doesn't work that way.
You need proof to back up your theories. Then can could be taking seriously, if not too off the wall. But don't back your stuff up that isn't from the transcripts or from Joss's mouth.
Pythagore
All Hail Discordia!
Actually, I don't care what Joss says. What is in the episodes is in the episodes. If you are going to debate theology go to the source.
We should put up a FAQ about this and then just refer to that if someone decides that Faith is the active slayer only because she is hot (which she is, btw - see "Jay and Silent Bob strikes back" if you are in doubt). I've only been here for a few days and I am already bored of this discussion. 🙂
But I do enjoy the more deeper levels of Buffy, don't get me wrong. What ticked me of was some people who didn't really listen to reason, or listen to what they said themselves. That is something that drives me absolutely crazy.
Sorry if I am too frank about that.
We should put up a FAQ about this and then just refer to that if someone decides that Faith is the active slayer only because she is hot (which she is, btw - see "Jay and Silent Bob strikes back" if you are in doubt). I've only been here for a few days and I am already bored of this discussion. 🙂
But I do enjoy the more deeper levels of Buffy, don't get me wrong. What ticked me of was some people who didn't really listen to reason, or listen to what they said themselves. That is something that drives me absolutely crazy.
Sorry if I am too frank about that.
eponinethen
Majk
Pythagore said:
Thanks. Glad we all agree that we've come as far as we can on this thread. I know what my theory is now and I think most people have the same one.. Though at least for me it did change during this discussion.. Lots of great theories here, though it's boring when people can't read the whole thread before posting.. I mean why say everything seven times.. Anyway the whole "did she die"-thing or "did it matter if she died only for a second".. we don't seem to get further on this topic.. heh. (Which is annoying but, kind of relieving..)
Pythagore
All Hail Discordia!
I am glad because it made me think. I had kinda taken this at face value, not thinking about what actually caused it or what the variating theories might be. So thanks everyone for a good debate. I think I will enjoy myself here in the future. 🙂eponinethen said:
nerd4hire
Certified Uncloneable
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Glad you feel that way Pythagore. Just be thankful you weren't here a couple of weeks ago for the I Will Remember You debate. 🙂 (trust me)
Then there was the "Are You Religious?" thread. That one I guarantee you the moderator was counting down to a 100 posts so she could close it. It was a powderkeg waiting for someone to light the fuse.
Then there was the "Are You Religious?" thread. That one I guarantee you the moderator was counting down to a 100 posts so she could close it. It was a powderkeg waiting for someone to light the fuse.
XxSlayerxX
The News Reporter
Just to let you guys know.I'm not that big of a fan of Faith.I am a great big fan of Buffy.I just wanted to point out what I think is true.What I said I supported with articles, and transcripts.I still don't think that Buffy died in that episode, because nobody but some users here in BB, have said that Buffy died 3 times.In interviews, and articles, they always say Buffy died 2 times.Let's end this discussion, and stick to our vote.I'm very supportive of my vote.
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