The Commando's in Sunnydale
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NotASlayer
𝕮𝖍𝖔𝖈𝖔𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖊 𝕻𝖗𝖎𝖓𝖈𝖊𝖘𝖘 🍫 👸🏻
It is one of the dumbest decisions of a season filled with dumb decisions on Buffy's part. Spike, an agent of the First, is killing people but dying? Let's call up someone to make him more dangerous! Meanwhile, there's an army of Punyvamps that they need to wipe out. Should we call up the actual army with guns who would have made short work of it? Who we have literally just spoken to? Nope, not as important to save the world as it is to coddle Spike.
Thank goodness nothing after "The Gift" is actually canon.
Thank goodness nothing after "The Gift" is actually canon.
last time Buffy saw these guys take on a large number of demons she'd seen them take 40% losses
She didn't think they could take care of themselves and she didn't need more people she would have to protect who probably wouldn't listen to her
NotASlayer
𝕮𝖍𝖔𝖈𝖔𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖊 𝕻𝖗𝖎𝖓𝖈𝖊𝖘𝖘 🍫 👸🏻
Buffy has never seen them take on demons. She saw the Initiative take on demons and take huge losses because they were betrayed; these guys are a much more professional purely military unit that is focused on killing demons, not experimenting on them. And, really, why would she need to protect a dozen guys with heavy machine guns? Get them into the Hellmouth, set them up, goodbye Punyvamps. It would have been incredibly easy to do and vastly more effective than a handful of vastly outnumbered baby Slayers who never had a chance of success.
AlphaFoxtrot
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Okay, did you ever see the X-Files? Spawn? The time when the Watchtower Bible Society commissioned Jack Chick to illustrate a Children's book? I'm not convinced a government with extensive ties to the Blackthorn would likely be on Buffy's side. Buffy may be owed a favor by the Initiative, but once you start renting office space in Sunnydale, someone would notice.
SavvyScoobie
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NotASlayer
𝕮𝖍𝖔𝖈𝖔𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖊 𝕻𝖗𝖎𝖓𝖈𝖊𝖘𝖘 🍫 👸🏻
The First was separate to everyone else, enough so that almost no-one had even heard of it. And given that Black Thorn was tied to W&H who explicitly didn't want the First's apocalypse, I can't see them being troubled by it.
The government doesn't have to be on Buffy's side; it just has to be opposed to the First. And most of the evils didn't want the world destroyed; all their cool stuff was there.
I think the results would be different if the Army was prepared. Surprise routinely turns unbeatable armies into bloody mush. See the Battle of Trenton or Chancellorsville or Pearl Harbor or the Bulge or the Chinese Intervention in Korea or the Tet Offensive or any of a thousand other historical examples. If the Initiative commander knew of Adam's Trojan Horse, the machine guns and taser rifles at the entrance to the cells would have massacred the demons and vampires.
Now, Buffy doesn't give a damn about traditional learning so she won't know any of this. Still, even giving what a moron Buffy truly is (yet another reason she should never be put in charge) bringing in the guys that kill supernatural beings for a living and are good at it is basic cognition 101. Wait ..... Did Buffy withdraw from that course.....
NotASlayer
𝕮𝖍𝖔𝖈𝖔𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖊 𝕻𝖗𝖎𝖓𝖈𝖊𝖘𝖘 🍫 👸🏻
S7 presented the situation as a military problem, which had never been done before. The objective was to defeat an army, using an "army." There was no big bad to go after and kill. In the first five seasons, the objective was to take down a big bad; the Master, Angelus, the Mayor, Adam, Glory. The closest thing to a military problem was S3, but the objective was still to defeat an individual.
Plus, in S3, there was no other option. The Initiative wasn't known to exist, and even if their existence was known (and if they were there), their military was a combination of security and snatch and grab.
In S7, you had a military problem. You had a known, effective, military for dealing with it, who Buffy could contact. Yet she didn't, not for anything that was actually important and would save lives. That just makes her look stupid, especially as her plan was stupid too. If it wasn't presented as a military problem, or if there wasn't a military that could be easily contacted, that would be different.
Plus, in S3, there was no other option. The Initiative wasn't known to exist, and even if their existence was known (and if they were there), their military was a combination of security and snatch and grab.
In S7, you had a military problem. You had a known, effective, military for dealing with it, who Buffy could contact. Yet she didn't, not for anything that was actually important and would save lives. That just makes her look stupid, especially as her plan was stupid too. If it wasn't presented as a military problem, or if there wasn't a military that could be easily contacted, that would be different.
AlphaFoxtrot
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Re: Army; Soldiers are generally trained to stand in a line and keep firing a weapon in high pressure situations. That works great for other humans, but it sucks for monsters. That's a different kind of training. That's why Slayers are trained as warriors, not soldiers.
Re: Blackthorne: Demonic society is feudal, If one of the long dreaming Demon Lords that Wolfram & Hart serves took an oath of fealty to the First at some point in the distant past, they would also be bound by it. So, I agree, they don't like the First, but as stewards and slaves, they can't openly oppose him. They are limited as to what they can do, and not violate or offend the Demon Society.
Re: Blackthorne: Demonic society is feudal, If one of the long dreaming Demon Lords that Wolfram & Hart serves took an oath of fealty to the First at some point in the distant past, they would also be bound by it. So, I agree, they don't like the First, but as stewards and slaves, they can't openly oppose him. They are limited as to what they can do, and not violate or offend the Demon Society.
thetopher
Member of the Church Of Faith
I think because the commandos- and therefore the writers- knew that Spike was the Key to victory this season; more important that Initiative tech or army men or explosives (when have explosives or rocket launchers ever helped Buffy anyway?). Remember that we need to find a subplot for Spike every other episode so Buffy has to dote on and interact with him; rescue him from the First, goad him into becoming a Big Bad again, helping him with a chip, a trigger, an assassination plot, punch Faith for her; so many ultimately pointless things for him to spin his wheels with until the grand finale.
'The key to victory was Spike's free will, which the chip was inhibiting. Spike had to choose to be good, to be a champion, to be Buffy's champion so he could save the day. Removing the chip would be the first step to that.'
...The above is, I guess, what the writers were going for, and it might have had some kind of merit if not for the trigger, the trigger is the fatal flaw at the heart of the season. The trigger means that Spike has no free will, despite the presence of a soul, and so for him to be any help the trigger is the thing that must be removed, the chip is, by this point, irrelevant; it was only removed because it was harming Spike.
The trigger does not harm Spike, only other people, so Buffy didn't seem to care about it. Only Giles seemed to care which is why he was the only one to investigate and obtain a magical device to take care of the trigger
'The key to victory was Spike's free will, which the chip was inhibiting. Spike had to choose to be good, to be a champion, to be Buffy's champion so he could save the day. Removing the chip would be the first step to that.'
...The above is, I guess, what the writers were going for, and it might have had some kind of merit if not for the trigger, the trigger is the fatal flaw at the heart of the season. The trigger means that Spike has no free will, despite the presence of a soul, and so for him to be any help the trigger is the thing that must be removed, the chip is, by this point, irrelevant; it was only removed because it was harming Spike.
The trigger does not harm Spike, only other people, so Buffy didn't seem to care about it. Only Giles seemed to care which is why he was the only one to investigate and obtain a magical device to take care of the trigger
The Initiative's assault rifles and machine guns and grenades killed a lot of demons in "Primeval". The tasers shocked Spike and the vamp in "The Freshman" into coma-like helplessness so I think the army would do ok and a well trained and experienced group of demon-vampire hunter-killers would do some serious killing at a small cost.
Personally i think the slayers could use some military training and weapons. A good silenced Glock loaded with phosperous bullets would burn up a lot of vampires.
NotASlayer
𝕮𝖍𝖔𝖈𝖔𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖊 𝕻𝖗𝖎𝖓𝖈𝖊𝖘𝖘 🍫 👸🏻
If portrayed accurately, trained soldiers are generally a lot more effective than Hollywood would like people to think. But they are rarely portrayed accurately in many media, because if they were, heroes would be a lot less necessary. This is okay as long as the heroes aren't dealing with a military problem that has a known military solution. Once you stray into that territory, things fall apart.
Incidentally, Aliens probably did depict the Colonial Marines well in that case. They were apparently based on Vietnam-era military, which from what I can tell was rather a mess, and had a captain's billet filled by an inexperienced lieutenant who had by the sounds of it more than likely just been dropped into it.
hoponlilmama
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Think of how they could've helped during the final battle - with all the equipment they would've had on hand. Obviously, equipped to fight demons. They're not stupid enough to bring guns that'll do no damage to the
NotASlayer
𝕮𝖍𝖔𝖈𝖔𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖊 𝕻𝖗𝖎𝖓𝖈𝖊𝖘𝖘 🍫 👸🏻
If you can kill a Punyvamp with a pointy stick, .50 cal bullets being fired at the rate of 450-1300 per minute per gun at more than two and a half times the speed of sound are going to make a dent.
hoponlilmama
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I think using phospherous based tracer rounds would burn up the vamps whether you hit the heart or not. Plus, you would not need to haul around a 200 lbs 50 cal machine gun and tripod to kill punyvamps.
Phospherous burns at over 400 degrees which should bbq any vamp rather nicely.
Whedon & Co & most of the Hollywood elite tend to see the military as either a bunch of blood thirsty war criminals or the bozo brigades. Of course, none of them could be bothered to serve. So the portrayal of the army as taking 40% casualties and having to be saved by Buffy makes sense internally since the story was written by a bunch of highly biased ignoramuses. Add in their absolute bigotry against firearms and one sees how we got the Initiative we got.
Phospherous burns at over 400 degrees which should bbq any vamp rather nicely.
Whedon & Co & most of the Hollywood elite tend to see the military as either a bunch of blood thirsty war criminals or the bozo brigades. Of course, none of them could be bothered to serve. So the portrayal of the army as taking 40% casualties and having to be saved by Buffy makes sense internally since the story was written by a bunch of highly biased ignoramuses. Add in their absolute bigotry against firearms and one sees how we got the Initiative we got.
NotASlayer
𝕮𝖍𝖔𝖈𝖔𝖑𝖆𝖙𝖊 𝕻𝖗𝖎𝖓𝖈𝖊𝖘𝖘 🍫 👸🏻
Even without a 50 cal, something heavier than an assault rifle would still work with WP rounds. More ammo, greater rate of fire, greater muzzle velocity. Then some WP grenades to finish off the remains.
Which makes it all the more stupid that they literally finished the series on something that required a military solution.
Insert one of my favourite gifs/movie quotes...
