The Death Penalty

[Professor Walsh]

Some write about wanting a murderer dear as if that is a feeling all people share. I, for one, don't, not even in the wake of the recent massacre here in Norway. Quite the contrary - I want the killer to see that we are not like him, that the society will not be pushed in his direction. Were we to kill him (something that is not an option, we don't have death penalty), we would dishonour the memory of his victims.

 

[Kean]

Yeah, but the frightening part is that we have very little real control over just WHAT they learn.

I would rather have that little control over what someone learns then to have the total control that ensures they learn nothing by executing them.

 

[Mithol]

I can't even express how much I am against the death penalty. Killing killers to show that killing is wrong. It's just ridiculous. Its only pro is revenge, and revenge as a pro is a concept I don't even want to think about. What right do we have to take away someone's life? How is that up to us? Aren't we punishing the murderer because they had no right to take a life in the first place?

It's hypocritical, it risks harming the innocent who is wrongly accused, and it precludes the possibility of rehabilitation.

 

[InsaneMystic]

Thoroughly against it. Three words: Universal human rights. I don't see any reason why a murderer's victim should deserve protection if, as a society, we're ready to revoke the right to live at all. It reeks of hypocrisy and elitism to me. Universal, equal rights mean that if the death penalty is fine, then murder for fun should be perfectly legal, too. Simply put, if a state supports systemic violation of human rights, it doesn't deserve having its laws followed in the first place, especially if it pretends to be a modern Western democracy. (As an aside - the odd-man-out stance the U.S. has about death penalty, left alone in that opinion among Western democracies, makes it the "embarrassing hillbilly cousin" among those societies IMHO. Coupling this with the world's biggest military force and an aggressive foreign policy, is one of the things that have led to making America pretty damn scary to me over the years.)

In fact, if you argue both "eye-for-an-eye" and "saving money", you shouldn't root for a legal system at all - simple, good old fashioned anarchy is the system that saves by far the most money, period. (If you also want protection against your gun toting neighbor deciding to rape, pillage and plunder your home for fun and profit - well, that amounts to wanting to have your cake and eat it, too.) Besides, the "prisons cost money" argument is flawed, anyway. On average, a verdict to death row leads to more costs for the legal system than a verdict to life imprisonment.

 

[Taake]

Morally speaking, I don't think the death penalty is particularly defendable or right for reasons other members here have already voiced.

Practically speaking... I can't say I'm against it. I guess I have less belief in humanity than some of you but I simply don't believe in that kind of change, or in some cases the right to claim that change. I agree that it is pro-revenge and perhaps my opinon is colored by my own experiences with the justice system (life imprisonment in Sweden is a joke) but in some cases I can only say that I am pro death penalty. It is a hard question though but that's where I stand.

 

[caitaintdead]

Has anyone seen this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107207/

If you have, you will understand why I am against the death penalty. If you haven't... You won't.

 

[prophecygrrl]

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."

-Gandalf, Fellowship of the Ring

I think he says it well. That's my moral view on it.

Practically, I'm still against it. In the U.S. at least, the death penalty (and the justice system in general) is notorious for being racist, classist, and really discriminatory in a lot of other ways. It's more expensive than life imprisonment so it doesn't save any money, and it doesn't deter or prevent crime. Objectively, really, there's no point.

 

[Ianigsy]

I see no good reason in favour of it except that it serves to provide an outlet for the desire for revenge. Even then, murderers have families who might not have had any connection to the crime but are still punished. And too many people on death row are there because they are the wrong race, too poor to be able to hire a competent lawyer or have undiagnosed learning difficulties.

That said, I can kind of see how in the US having a death penalty is a kind of counterbalance to the constitutional right to bear arms- it's telling people that yes, they have a time-honoured right to accumulate enough weapons to take on North Korea, but if they use them in the wrong way then society has an ultimate sanction. But once you get rid of the death penalty in a society, I think it's very difficult to go back- you're effectively admitting to the world that your country is going backwards, and then there's the whole mechanism of building your gas chamber or whatever facility you're going to use, and hiring and training executioners. And from a political point of view, it's the kind of controversial and divisive issue that nobody wants to pick up because it just invites attack.

 

[xfivebyfive]

I think that if prisons were different and incarceration really meant incarceration, it wouldn't be so hard to accept.

That's true. But I still think it would be harder then wishing them dead. Knowing what they did and wanting them to suffer will always be easier.

 

[zobothehobo]

I couldn't even explain how against the death penalty I am. It saddens me in the deepest part of my heart that there are those who aren't (and no, this is not me judging... this is me explaining how I feel). The way I look at it is: if it's not ok for the criminals to kill people, why is it ok for the justice system to kill people?

I believe in the capacity to change, but that's not why I am so against the death penalty. I'm against the death penalty because I believe VERY strongly in everyone's universal and UNCONDITIONAL right to live. The thought that my goverenement, my justice system doesn't respect that right, the most basic of rights, scares me. This is the system put in place to protect us, to protect us from our rights being violated... and yet they can violate the most sacred and basic of rights? That's not a fun thought to me.

 

[Tome]

Totally against it. It's one of the topics I'm adamant about. I've had countless arguments with people who believe in it. I do get some of their points, but in the end I just don't think ANY of us have the right to decide if someone deserve to die. I find the whole thing to be something of the past. Let's move on toward the future, please. Our goal shouldn't be to seek revenge on murderers and criminals, but rather do something so people DON'T turn out that way. There is something wrong from the beginning when a human ends up wanting to hurt and kill others. Death penalty won't fix shit. It's just a way to get rid of our failures as a society. Our energy should be focused on more important things, like education, poverty and even more support for kids with difficult backgrounds.

 

[Ms.Trick]

I am most definitely against death penalty.

Always have, always will.

First of all. You can legally execute someone because he killed someone else? I'm sorry, a man's life is a man's life. Wether you are a criminal or not. And because someone took someone else's life, doesn't mean you can take his, because that would be doing the exact same thing.

Second. I'm one of those people who love life but deeply think death is a form of rest. Like Dumbledore would say, it's like saluting a friend at the end of a long journey. It means being somehow peaceful, worryless.
And I don't want criminals to have that. It would be too easy. It might be a lil bit sadistic, but I always firmly believed that having to deal with the consequences of your act, having to face society (if you are released) who sees you as nothing but a human trash, a disease to the world, is a much, much better punishment than just dying and not having to deal with what you are. So I was more for psychological punishment.

And then last year, we saw at school a webdocumentary about life in prison, and it confirmed my theory of «death is reasonably peaceful compared to live punished». Because those people, who were in jail for 'minor' crimes like fraud (minor= no rape or mass murder) were damaged by their life in jail. They explained that in jail, they have nothing. They are not just deprived from their freedom because their are in a cell. No, it was much more than that. Even their own body wasn't theirs anymore. They are exposed, have no privacy, are not even remotely respected. Some end up killing themselves- or trying to, because death seems better, easier, than having their human dignity ignored. I don't remember all the details, but I remember thinking «Gee, I had no idea life in jail was that tough". I even felt pity for them.
That's when I had like that revelation that a lot of people (and I was a part of them) see criminal as monsters. Death penalty is denying the humanity of the criminal.
Even if someone's actions are terrible, the person used to be normal, just like everybody else, but something happened in his background, his past, that made him into that. No one is born criminal. And with the death penalty, any chance of redemption just disappears. And that is exactly like saying "No. You won't have the chance to have redemption. You are a monster. An animal that needs to be killed".

I'm going to stop here because my thought start going crazy and I loose my point, and I'm not sure my post makes a lot of sense. But I'm against death penalty.. Period.

 

[OhWow]

I'm fairly certain that I'm against the Death Penalty. It's a bit hypocritical, although I feel many cases depend on the circumstance. Overall though, I don't like it. It is called the justice system for a reason.

 

[Goby]

The death penalty is wrong. BTW, as far as cost, it costs California $300,000,000 for EACH person they have executed. THAT IS NOT A TYPO!!!! Housing a person for life is much cheaper.

There are only two situations where I am for the death penalty.... Crimes Against Humanity (as in the Nazis), and Treason. But those are pretty rare.

We have executed innocent people. And that makes the US guilty of murder. Don't get me started on Texas......

 

[AlyInWonderland]

We have executed innocent people. And that makes the US guilty of murder. Don't get me started on Texas......

I feel like as a Texan I should say something, but I got nothing.

To be perfectly honest, I am not aware of the qualifications of what makes the death penalty an viable sentence for some crimes and not others. I do know that there are horrible crimes in which jail just doesn't seem like it is enough. I'm not sure that their death evens the scales, but it feels like it helps some. Maybe this is one of those things that we are too close to, so we can't see if in the big picture it does more harm than good or vice versa.

I'm pretty sure I am in the minority here, and that is fine with me. I am not trying to sway any of you, I like sharing my opinions and I like hearing the opposition. There are lots of sides to the death penalty to consider, pros and cons to weigh, and some of y'all seem to know more about one pro/con than others, so it is interesting to hear.

 

[caritas08]

I have mixed feelings about the death penalty to be honest. It isn't necessarily that I am for it but there are some dangerous people out there. I have dear friends who worked in the psych wards of the prison and their families and little children's lives were constantly threatened by some of these "humans" that are behind bars. These criminals get out on parole way too easily because of circumstantial evidence and they have gone after the spouses and children of their wardens. The two friends I'm talking about don't work there anymore (fortunately) but I do feel that we let criminals (especially pedophiles) run loose way too easily. I'm not saying the death penalty is the answer however, and I do agree that innocent people have probably died because of it, I'm just saying that as a society we do need rethink the early parole we give pedophiles, convicted rapists and people who are guilty of violent acts.

 

[Mithol]

I agree that some criminals deserve stricter and longer sentences. But that doesn't move me to the death penalty at all. There's something wrong with the justice system when a paedophile only goes to prison for 18 months after decades of molesting and raping multiple young girls. But I don't see the death penalty as an answer to anything.

 

[FetalPig]

Agreeing with Tome and Ms.Trick and Kean above.
The society is broken - let's fix it.

A few people have said that the only reason that they can think of for retaining the death penalty is revenge, or perhaps cost-effectiveness (which is disputed as a valid reason).

I think the main reason that for keeping the death penalty is because society doesn't know how else to admit that it doesn't know what else to do. It's easier to remove the reminder (and the threat) of a person's crimes than it is to look at the causes or to find a way to make society better (not just safer, but better).

I believe in a human's ability to come to terms with their actions, and that their conscience is this process at work. I also realise that we can ignore our conscience and avoid that kind of process. Time is a useful factor for allowing the conscience to work, but i can imagine procrastination would be a major factor, too. On the other hand, as someone once wrote, "the prospect of impending death sharpens the mind wonderfully!", so a death sentence would make it more likely that someone would want to come to terms with their life and actions. It would be necessary for the death sentence to not be an empty threat for this to work.

So i believe the origin of the legal death penalty is part revenge, part avoidance of deeper issues, and part creating an opportunity for a person to prepare to meet their maker as it were.

I'm in the camp of everyone having their chance to come to terms with their actions. I don't know what comes after death, but i believe it isn't the end. And i strongly suspect that the Eastern concept whereby our state of consciousness at the time of death influences how we proceed, is close to the truth. I can see how the death penalty could work for or against that.

One other thing that troubles me is who do we pay to pull the lever/swing the axe/inject the poison or whatever method is in vogue? If you believe in the death penalty would you be willing to be the killer? Would you be the right person for the job?

If we can't make society a better place at this level does that mean i would approve of the death penalty to make the world safer? I'm not decided.

 

[BuffangelLovE]

I'm against it. Firstly, it's an easy way out for the offender. Secondly, death penalty is nothing else than a murder, only justified by law. Thus, we will launch ourselves into the same level as the murderers we "punish", making us no better than them. Last but not least: God (if there is one - I'm not certain about that yet 😉 ) is the only one who is to judge us, when time comes.

 

[Enemies]

I'm not 100% against the death penalty, but I do believe that prisoners should have it hard in prison. It should not be a place where they get TVs and pool tables and other luxuries. People are in prison often for serious offences and I don't think it should be somewhere that is as 'homely' as it is. If you've murdered someone you should do hard time for it with none of lifes luxuries for the rest of your life. I know prisoners have human rights too but through them being in prison means they must have inflicted on someone elses rights to be in there in the first place.