The Debate

[Oriphiel]

If he hadn't met Doyle, Angel would've been so boring. Imagine a whole season of Angel where he just broods and stalks Buffy.
Well, more then he already does...

 

[Willow-Tree]

No, Angel definitely needed to have met Doyle in order to succeed. Doyle passed on his visions to Cordelia, who then helped the gang for three and a half seasons. While Doyle isn't as great as a friend to Angel as the other members of the Fang Gang (He was a wonderful friend, but he didn't have as much time to develop as the others had), it's unfair to say that Angel would be anywhere without him.

---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------

Also, I want to say that Doyle really helped Cordelia progess as a character, as well. =D

 

[Flannen]

Willow-Tree agrees: I'm sorry, but Cordelia has had MUCH more of an impact on Angel that Doyle did. :/

Maybe as far as you're concerned. But I'm not comparing the two. Doyle, like I said in a post above, gave Angel male emotional support and understanding that no other character ever did. Even Cordelia, simply because of that male thing. So sorry, Cordelia hasn't had MUCH more of an impact, she had a VERY DIFFERENT impact.

And this:

While Doyle isn't as great as a friend to Angel as the other members of the Fang Gang (He was a wonderful friend, but he didn't have as much time to develop as the others had), it's unfair to say that Angel would be anywhere without him.

I have to disagree. Doyle, despite only have a short amount of time on the show, was as good a friend as anybody else to him, even rivalling Cordelia.

 

[Willow-Tree]

Maybe as far as you're concerned. But I'm not comparing the two. Doyle, like I said in a post above, gave Angel male emotional support and understanding that no other character ever did. Even Cordelia, simply because of that male thing. So sorry, Cordelia hasn't had MUCH more of an impact, she had a VERY DIFFERENT impact.

And this:



I have to disagree. Doyle, despite only have a short amount of time on the show, was as good a friend as anybody else to him, even rivalling Cordelia.

I don't understand how he could have rivaled Cordelia... Cordy was there for him whenever he needed her, and vice versa. I'm sure that if Doyle were on the show as long as the other characters were, he would absolutely be Angel's best friend. But he wasn't. Joss never intended for Doyle to be a long-term character, and only created him so he could "surprise" the viewers by killing him off quickly. (A tactic that I despise, by the way.)

 

[Flannen]

I don't understand how he could have rivaled Cordelia... Cordy was there for him whenever he needed her, and vice versa. I'm sure that if Doyle were on the show as long as the other characters were, he would absolutely be Angel's best friend. But he wasn't. Joss never intended for Doyle to be a long-term character, and only created him so he could "surprise" the viewers by killing him off quickly. (A tactic that I despise, by the way.)

I don't think it's fair that just because Doyle was killed off early that he means he was any less of a friend to Angel. Without the friendship he struck up with Doyle, Angel would never have been able to even contemplate the friendship he had with Cordelia. Angel never hesitated to tell Doyle what he was feeling and what was wrong with him. The scene that springs to mind is him telling Doyle about the events of IWRY. Angel so rarely opened himself up to somebody but he didn't miss a beat confiding in Doyle about what he was going through. Everything that happened between Angel and Doyle in those few episodes solidifies Doyle as one of the best friends Angel ever had. He could rival Cordelia, I'm not saying he does, because he was everything Cordelia was, with the added bonus of being male, in the short amount of time he was by Angel's side.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

and only created him so he could "surprise" the viewers by killing him off quickly. (A tactic that I despise, by the way.)

That depends on with whom you speak
"Joss has bandied about, 'I love the idea of putting a character in the main credits as one of the stars of the show and then kill him right off the bat,'" Fury said. "But in the case of Doyle, he didn't want to kill off Doyle. It just became a situation. The work situation became difficult.... It's hard enough to make a television show without the headaches.- David Fury http://www.post-gazette.com/tv/20000725owen.asp

If you watch commentaries you will find that Joss had to continually rewrite lines on the set because Quinn's dialogue was inaudible and overdubs were a regular instance.

 

[Willow-Tree]

That depends on with whom you speak
"Joss has bandied about, 'I love the idea of putting a character in the main credits as one of the stars of the show and then kill him right off the bat,'" Fury said. "But in the case of Doyle, he didn't want to kill off Doyle. It just became a situation. The work situation became difficult.... It's hard enough to make a television show without the headaches.- David Fury http://www.post-gazette.com/tv/20000725owen.asp

If you watch commentaries you will find that Joss had to continually rewrite lines on the set because Quinn's dialogue was inaudible and overdubs were a regular instance.

He also said the same about Tara, Joyce, and Anya.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I heard that Joss had actually planned to keep Doyle as a regular throughout the run, but the actor (Quinn) got fired because he didn't "mesh" well with the cast, and have problems with drugs. I'll try to find out where I read this.

Also, David, Charisma and Quinn became great friends while working on AtS together. I saw an interview with David regarding this and he looked really sad while talking about it.

 

[faeriegrrl27]

Without Doyle, Angel could have gone back to how he was before he got his "Buffy purpose." He may have just gone back to the sewers eating rats and the like. But Doyle gave him a purpose again and clearly he's better when has a purpose (no rats!)