The Defamation of Riley Finn

[zobothehobo]

It kind of pisses me off that the hottest chicks almost always go for the bad boys ... but such is life. And such was Buffy. We all know Riley wouldn't work out in the end. And it's not about him being weaker than Buffy ... it's about him not being a Bad Boy.

The bad boy Buffy fell for was Spike.... Riley was actually more like a good boy who got lost. He found his way back home though...

 

[LadyLavinia]

Kana... I totally agree with you except for one thing. Riley never integrated himself to the Scooby Gang.

Actually, he did. It was obvious by early Season Five.

 

[brinkster130]

Love this post. I didn't mind Riley at all, his character totally grew on me. I did feel bad for Riley a little though, it was sad seeing how much more he loved and cared for Buffy than she did about him. He may have made some bonehead decisions but he really did care for Buffy and knew that his feeling far surpassed her feelings. I totally understood his actions and ultimatums...he was being rejected by the girl he was crazy about.

 

[Justme]

Riley has grown on me too, I have come to the conclusion he was by far the best of Buffys beaus.

 

[Spikefan31]

You know, as I'm re-watching season 5, I'm realising I don't dislike Riley as much as I used to. Sure, nothing will ever beat Spuffy, but he probably was the healthiest person for Buffy to be with.

 

[Kean]

I really love Riley. In fact if I could have a Riley of my own I would be a very happy lady. (sw)

I don't think his relationship with Buffy was in anyway healthy though. It should have been, I mean it had everything but it actually turned out being incredibly unhealthy, especially for Riley. Look what he did to be "worthy" of her. He could have killed himself. Buffy didn't fair much better. The start of Buffy retreating into herself is during her relationship with Riley.

They just didn't fit.

 

[VisionGirl]

I don't think his relationship with Buffy was in anyway healthy though. It should have been, I mean it had everything but it actually turned out being incredibly unhealthy, especially for Riley. Look what he did to be "worthy" of her.

And look what he's doing in season 8 for her! I've already stated in season 8 discussions what I think the possible conclusion of that might be for him.

The start of Buffy retreating into herself is during her relationship with Riley.

But I don't think that Riley or Briley was the cause of that, I think it happened to occur at the same time. The dream in Restless & the confrontation with the First Slayer, combined with the revelation about Dawn & her mother's illness is what caused her withdrawal.

I was just thinking about As You Were- I know that it's not everybody's favorite episode, but I love how it's Riley that reminds Buffy who she really is. Spike is usually her truth-teller, but he is so wrapped up in himself & his relationship with Buffy in season 6 that he has ceased to do that for her. In fact, a lot of the time he is telling her lies: how she belongs with him only, how no one else will understand. He is tearing her down while Riley builds her up. I don't know if Riley is able to do this because he has experienced that love & acceptance from Sam, or if it's the benefit of time & space away, or if he has just plain never stopped loving Buffy, but he is the one who gives her the motivation to climb out of that dark hole she's in.

 

[zobothehobo]

I'm going to concede on my normal very anti-Rliey stand and say I don't mind Rliey season 4. Upon many re-watches, I've come to decide that Riley in season 4 is not that bad. However, I will never like him in season 5. Buffy's mom was sick and they had no idea what was wrong with her and all he could think was "she didn't call me and tell me first."

 

[Kana]

I'm going to concede on my normal very anti-Rliey stand and say I don't mind Rliey season 4. Upon many re-watches, I've come to decide that Riley in season 4 is not that bad. However, I will never like him in season 5. Buffy's mom was sick and they had no idea what was wrong with her and all he could think was "she didn't call me and tell me first."

My only issue with Riley is how he handled things. I don't really blame anyone totally but I understand Riley's POV. Buffy's problem sometimes is pushing people away when things get tough. In a relationship, as far as I'm concerned it isn't supposed to work like that. If two people are close, they do tell each other things. They don't just snuggle when they are "out of the woods". Again I understand how both of the feel respectively because I've been the person who pushes people away and the person who wants someone to open up to me. If Buffy doesn't want to let anyone in, then she should be single. His ultimatum was love me or let me go, which was fair.

 

[SupportOGal]

You know, it's funny - I really used to hate Riley, but he's grown on me. At first I couldn't see Buffy with anyone but Angel, which was probably part of the problem. When I was younger, I believed in dramatic fated, love like that... in Buffy's words:"I know it's nuts, but part of me believes that real love and passion have to go hand-in-hand with pain and fighting. I wonder where I get that from?"

Angel wasn't healthy for Buffy, and neither was Spike. Riley was the best guy she dated, hands down. I'm not saying he was entirely in the right all the time, especially with the turning to a vampire-bite fetish, but I can kind of see where he was coming from. And he really did love Buffy. Unfortunately, sometimes the most "boring" choice is the best choice.

 

[zobothehobo]

Angel wasn't healthy for Buffy, and neither was Spike. Riley was the best guy she dated, hands down. I'm not saying he was entirely in the right all the time, especially with the turning to a vampire-bite fetish, but I can kind of see where he was coming from. And he really did love Buffy. Unfortunately, sometimes the most "boring" choice is the best choice.

Ok, I'm going to be a Spuffy here...
I agree neither of the Bangel or Spuffy relationships were healthy all the time... But I disagree Riley was the best guy she dated. If you talk about personality and being a "good man" I think Spike season 7 was the best guy she dated as well as Spuffy season 7 being the most healthy and helpful relationship FOR Buffy. Spike helped her grow in away neither Angel nor Riley did. Riley held her back and was the least helpful to her. I feel like she grew less as a person with Riley than she did with Angel and Spike. Riley was the most "normal" guy she dated. He also had a healthier life experience because he wasn't a vampire.... but he wasn't the best guy she dated.

 

[Icarium]

Spuffy season 7 being the most healthy and helpful relationship FOR Buffy. Spike helped her grow in away neither Angel nor Riley did.

Yes, slamming the door in Giles's face, mocking the dead Potential, threatening to kill Wood and playing the "Follow me or I will leave" card was really mature of her...

But I disagree Riley was the best guy she dated. If you talk about personality and being a "good man" I think Spike season 7 was the best guy she dated

They didn't date.

He also had a healthier life experience because he wasn't a vampire.... but he wasn't the best guy she dated.

Yeah? How many times did he try to kill Buffy or one of her friends? How about Spike or Angel, how many times did they try that? This alone makes Riley a much more healthy choice than any of the vampires, IMO.

I was just thinking about As You Were- I know that it's not everybody's favorite episode, but I love how it's Riley that reminds Buffy who she really is. Spike is usually her truth-teller, but he is so wrapped up in himself & his relationship with Buffy in season 6 that he has ceased to do that for her. In fact, a lot of the time he is telling her lies: how she belongs with him only, how no one else will understand. He is tearing her down while Riley builds her up.

Exactly.

 

[zobothehobo]

Yes, slamming the door in Giles's face, mocking the dead Potential, threatening to kill Wood and playing the "Follow me or I will leave" card was really mature of her...

Slamming the door in Giles's face is because he betrayed her. Went behind her back and tried to do something she specifically told him not to do. I'd slam the door in someone's face if they did that to me too!

Mocking the dead potential was because she was upset. Upset that the first talked this girl to suicide. Maybe she didn't handle it the best she could have but honestly... I would have been pissed too. She was doing everything she could trying to help these girls, and how did this one repay her? By offing herself.

Like it or not, season 7 was a "follow me or else" kind of deal. I personally thing Buffy was a great leader and everyone who went behind her back and against her (which was everyone but Spike) was an idiot. Buffy had the best strategies and she had slayer intuition no one else had (including Faith, Faith was a slayer, but Buffy had been a slayer longer AND Buffy actually fought evil. Faith fought evil for a couple months). It was a "you better fall in line and do your part or you're going to die" kind of thing. Sometimes in battle, that's what needs to be said. Generals do it all the time. Buffy was a general in that fight as said by Giles. (the funny thing is, he seemed to not understand that Buffy being the general means that she says what happens and he doesn't)

They didn't date.

Oh please. You know what I mean. Nit picking at word choices means you have a great augment.

Yeah? How many times did he try to kill Buffy or one of her friends? How about Spike or Angel, how many times did they try that? This alone makes Riley a much more healthy choice than any of the vampires, IMO.

I said Riley had a healthier life experience... But in terms of healthy FOR Buffy. Helpful TO Buffy... I still say the answer is Spike. Buffy grew with Spike in a way she couldn't with Riley or Angel. With Spike she was allowed to be herself... allowed to figure out exactly who that was.

 

[Icarium]

Like it or not, season 7 was a "follow me or else" kind of deal.

Like it or not "Follow me or I will take my toys and leave" is what kids do, not great leaders.

Buffy grew with Spike in a way she couldn't with Riley or Angel. With Spike she was allowed to be herself... allowed to figure out exactly who that was.

Vague much? In just one episode Riley did more to get Buffy out of her depression than Spike in 42. But since this isn't a thread about Spike, I won't elaborate on the subject. But Buffy of S4 seems way more happy than Buffy of S7, that's for sure.

 

[Marisa]

Like it or not "Follow me or I will take my toys and leave" is what kids do, not great leaders.

Those girls needed to have a leader that took action, some of them were very childish and not appreciative of the fact that Buffy opened her home and was trying to help them survive. If Buffy didn't take this attitude who would? Not to bash Faith but her which was less take lead failed the girls started yelling and such and they didn't have a solid plan.

Vague much? In just one episode Riley did more to get Buffy out of her depression than Spike in 42. But since this isn't a thread about Spike, I won't elaborate on the subject. But Buffy of S4 seems way more happy than Buffy of S7, that's for sure.

I don't think it is fair IMO to say she was necessarily happier in S4. A lot of things had happened since then her mom, dawn and her being ripped from heaven so of course she would not be as happy in S7 as S4.

 

[Tome]

Not that I wanna go against Buffy/Riley or anything(I like that ship), but Spike did help Buffy a LOT too when he did that speech in 'Touched', and just spent the night with her. All of them - Angel, Riley, Spike - helped her greatly at some point.

 

[Marisa]

I agree Zalos everyone helped her in some way or another there is no denying that. I think it was all in different ways at different times.

BTW Zalos I on accident clicked ok to fast I have been meaning to tell you that I LOVE your banner! It makes me laugh every time I see it.

 

[VisionGirl]

Vague much? In just one episode Riley did more to get Buffy out of her depression than Spike in 42.

Wow, Icarium, I think we're actually agreeing on something LOL! And earlier in this thread I mentioned that I think Riley was important to Faith's redemption arc as well, since it was sex with Riley that initiated the change in her: being loved unconditionally, even though it wasn't really her that Riley loved.

Actually, I think you & I agree on Buffy's death in The Gift (that it was in part suicide) although you've never commented on my thread about that on the season 5 forum.

 

[Spikefan31]

You know what? I've just decided that I don't hate Riley. As of about 3 minutes ago. 😀

 

[LadyLavinia]

I've always liked Riley from Day One. Even when Maggie Walsh's conservative beliefs seemed to have a hold on him. I've always liked him.