The Deleted Buffy/Giles scene in "Lies My Parents Told Me"

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kittenpoker said:
I heard something about this on the commentary....I think the decision not to include it was based on the thinking that the Ben thing was two seasons ago and therefore no longer relevant. Personally I disagree.
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And yet, on "Angel," they still have a major scene in Season 5 "You're Welcome" showing how Cordy and Angel still miss Doyle, including even showing the old Angel Investigations ad that he made, when he didn't even finish out the first season. How come Doyle is still worth mentioning after more than 4 years, but Ben/Glory didn't deserve mention after only 2 years, when it was far more important to the actual story line?
 
K
kittenpoker
excellent point!
My first reaction is yes, they should have left this scene in. Or at least they should have put in a reference to Giles killing Ben somewhere along the lines.

But the more I think about it, the more hazy it becomes.

If you think back to Giles actually killing Ben, he says:
"Sooner or later Glory will resurface and make Buffy pay, make the whole world pay. Buffy even knows this"

Buffy knows it, and realistically it would have occurred to the rest of the scoobies at some point too. So why, post Season 5, is no-one shown quaking in their stylish-yet-affordable boots about if and when Glory will be back to rip them all to pieces? They don't seem the slightest bit concerned, not even a passing reference, to the fact that one day "Glory will resurface".

The issue must have been put to rest somehow, and I'm guessing Buffy knew full well what Giles was going to do once she left he and Ben alone. And more to the point, Giles knew that Buffy knew. But neither of them said anything. Not then, and not since. Because it's just too messy - and shameful. There's an understanding between Buffy and Giles at this stage in their relationship, he "says and does what others shouldn't have to".

And I think the rest of the Scoobies, either collectively or at different individual times, probably realised that's what happened too, but again they wouldn't confront Giles about it. Not least because they didn't want to upset him. Better to just let sleeping dogs lie.

Anyway, that's my take on the situation! I probably didn't explain it very well. 😛
 
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patriot1123
You explained it very well. Good job, and I agree.
I'm not particularly fond of the way that was written (but maybe it would've been better when seen on screen), but I agree with everyone. I don't know if it needed to be during that episode, but it would've been nice to see it referenced. It definitely would have added to Giles' development. I don't think it would have necessarily made him more sympathetic or would have even healed the rift between he & Buffy. Heck, I'm not even sure he necessarily felt guilt about it! Giles wasn't one to wallow.

white avenger said:
After all is said, however, the thing that was never pointed out, at least on screen to Buffy, was the fact that the whole plot to kill Spike was initiated, not by Giles, but by Robin Wood, the man who fully admitted that his concern wasn't with any sort of liability or threat that Spike presented to the group. He just wanted "the monster who murdered (his) mother." Granted, Giles had his doubts about Spike, but I believe that more than a small amount of that was his disapproval of any sort of relationship between Spike and Buffy.
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I have a question about this, but it's getting OT, so I think I'll start another thread starting with your quote, 'K? 🙂
 
I jumped over reading a few posts. What I wanted to know is, did the cut this from the script, or did they film it and then later cut it to shorten time or the flow of the episode?
 
[MENTION=10889]Abby27[/MENTION] thanks for that! Wow, that scene just got 10 times more intense. They should have kept that in to! And this scene was so intense while I was reading it:

GILES
So how high does the price have to go before you start saying your way isn't right?

BUFFY
I still think attacking Caleb's power base could end this --

GILES
Yes. You. Think. But when you act alone --

BUFFY
Is that really something you want to get into? 'Cause we can talk about Spike. Or Ben.

GILES
If I acted rashly, it was to protect you. Were you trying to protect Annabelle? Or Chloe?

BUFFY
Stop it.

GILES
(more intense)
Or Molly? Or Xander? And it goes even further back than that, doesn't it?

BUFFY
Giles.

GILES
(seething)
You act alone, and people get hurt, right? People like Jenny

BUFFY
Goddamn you, stop!!

Buffy SWEEPS a vase (maybe something vaguely African, from Joyce's gallery) off the end table. It SMASHES to the floor. Giles and Buffy stare at each other for a beat.

Did anybody else just have a WOW moment when they read that?

But I see why they edited it out. Same reason why they edited out the scene in "Lies". Buffy said "Is that really something you want to get into? 'Cause we can talk about Spike. Or Ben." We would have been confused. Like, okay how did she know about Ben? Joss was right about "killing his babies" so to speak. They cut out a lot of good, important scenes.
 
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Totally agree that this should have been kept in.

It's scene's like this that make me love the show so much. It doesn't hide from the darker parts of life.
 
K
kittenpoker
agreed!!!
Maybe I need to see this scene in action because Giles sounds kind of insane haha. Buffy's shock seems in response to him telling her he killed an innocent man and that he's about to kill another one. I know why Giles did what he did to Ben, obviously, but as I read this I just thought he sounded like a crazed general. Reminds me of when Willow says something along the lines of "Well we're not at Fort Giles!" in Pangs. Nevertheless, I would have liked to see this play out. I'm sure the way that ASH would have acted it out would have made him seem more guilty and less stony/psychotic. This season really ticked me off.
 
No one cares about Ben, but everyone cares about Buffy & Giles' character development.

Whoever made the decision to cut these scenes demonstrates they didn't know what BtVS was all about. Whether that be Joss or not.
 
Wow... is this trustworthy content... if so then they were silly to leave that part out, it would have made that episode much better... strange how such a few lines can make such a difference.
 
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