The Destruction of Wolfram & Hart

nerd4hire

nerd4hire

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So Angel destroys Wolfram & Hart. Are there consequence, I wonder?

Does Pavayne get loose? Are those contracts somehow mystically destroyed? Would that set free Lilah, and Lindsey? What about the conduit? Is that still there?
 
H
Hit The Books
good question! :)
Didn't the conduit already leave? One episode Gunn went to the white room and it just opened into a gaping abyss, or did the conduit come back?

And one point you didn't think of: If everything is destroyed, does that mean the failsafe has been released?
 
As I understood it, W R & H wanted to get [kill] Angel, so as soon as he had left the building there wouldn't be any point in them playing at knocking it down. They'd have still been after Angel. That's what I thought the demons in the alley were all about.
 
I wonder if a little review might help.

Angel, Connor, and Hamilton are fighting. Hamilton says,

"Let me say this as clearly as I can. You cannot beat me. I am a part of them. The Wolf, Ram, and Hart. Their strength flows through my veins. My blood is filled with their ancient power."

also

"You don't stand a chance. We are legion. We are forever."

It would seem Hamilton is somehow sharing the power of Wolfram and Hart. It's in Hamilton's blood. Angel drains the blood, and kills him.

Then comes the important part.

CONNOR
Is he dead?

ANGEL
Yeah, he's dead.

The building starts shaking and rumbling. Windows are cracking. The building is coming apart
Click to expand...

So by draining the Wolfram & Hart connection from Hamilton's body it somehow destroys the building. What's the affect of that destruction on the things W & H have influenced which were stored inside? Who knows, but it's interesting to ponder.
 
What about the 'fail-safe' that lindsey activated in 'You're Welcome"? wouldn't the Senior Partners have activated that when the LA Branch was destroyed too? it was suposedly specifically designed to bring Angel down if he proved uncontrolable.
 
You mean the one that created a super-Lindsey? Who was down there to activate it? What would it do? Are you sure it's still there, or still active after Angel discovered it? Wasn't it supposed to be a secret?

Or do you mean W & H would operate it remotely, and do something? If so, what? What exactly did that thing do, anyway?

Or are you saying after Hamilton died, it activated itself automatically, and that's what destroyed W & H.
 
Clem Rocks said:
Didn't the conduit already leave? One episode Gunn went to the white room and it just opened into a gaping abyss, or did the conduit come back?
Click to expand...

An episode or two later it is suggested that it is back (without any explanation as to how or why) for Gunn comments that he will go to The White Room and see if the Conduit has any information for him.

Presumably that thing Pavayne was locked in was pretty sturdy - how sturdy I don't know, but there is a chance it could have survived the building falling down about it. If not, corporeal that he is, I imagine he would have been crushed before having time to work any magic.
 
nerd4hire.
So Hamilton said he was all powerful. I didn't believe him, neither did Angel and to prove his point he killed him.
If the devil fronted up and said he couldn't be stopped, I might not say it to his face but the chances are I may not believe what the devil said.
The W. R. & H. building shook a bit, but nothing in the series showed it as having been destroyed.
That thing, the fail-safe [whatever] never got out. So it must still be in there, was it mentioned what that thing was or what it would do ?
 
About Hamilton getting killed: He was Liason to the Senior Partners, that meant he was immortal, how could Angel have killed him?
 
Being immortal doesn't mean you can't die, it mean you won't die, doesn't it? Like you won't die but you could still be killed, same as Angel, he was immortal and couldn't die but he could be killed?
 
nerd4hire.
So Hamilton said he was all powerful. I didn't believe him
Click to expand...

Good for you. Neither did I. What I pointed out was Hamilton was saying there was a physical connection of power between himself and the Senior Partners. I did believe that.

Upon confirmation of Hamilton's death the building begins coming down. Now either the death itself caused that, or the Senior Partners caused it from where they were somehow. Either way the one event initiated the other. This is what the script implies.

Now how much destruction actually took place? Technically you could say we only saw what could be the effects of a violent earthquake, however the scene implies something cataclysmic is taking place. There's urgency to the way Angel demands Connor leave the building. Angel then goes to rescue Eve, something he wouldn't to unless she was in actual mortal danger. Everything about that scene suggests the building is coming down.

About Hamilton getting killed: He was Liason to the Senior Partners, that meant he was immortal, how could Angel have killed him?
Click to expand...

Do you remember in Reprise when Angel kills a Senior Partner? If we can believe Lessons it's implies the immortal God Glory is dead. In the Buffyverse death appears to mean the forced, and what should be permanent separation of a being's essence from existing corporeal reality. What happens after that? Who knows?
 
M
MentPatient
Gorramnit, I am in awe of you brain.
nerd4hire said:
Good for you. Neither did I. What I pointed out was Hamilton was saying there was a physical connection of power between himself and the Senior Partners. I did believe that.

Upon confirmation of Hamilton's death the building begins coming down. Now either the death itself caused that, or the Senior Partners caused it from where they were somehow. Either way the one event initiated the other. This is what the script implies.

Now how much destruction actually took place? Technically you could say we only saw what could be the effects of a violent earthquake, however the scene implies something cataclysmic is taking place. There's urgency to the way Angel demands Connor leave the building. Angel then goes to rescue Eve, something he wouldn't to unless she was in actual mortal danger. Everything about that scene suggests the building is coming down.



Do you remember in Reprise when Angel kills a Senior Partner? If we can believe Lessons it's implies the immortal God Glory is dead. In the Buffyverse death appears to mean the forced, and what should be permanent separation of a being's essence from existing corporeal reality. What happens after that? Who knows?
Click to expand...

Glory died because she was in Ben's body when he died, and he was mortal.

And i don't remember Glory ever being called immortal
 
Oh c'mon, you're giving me grief, because you're saying a liason to the Senior Partners is supposed to be immortal, but you're say a God isn't?

You know, I don't see what the problem is here. I don't see why people are fighting the idea of this thread. Alls I'm saying is the Wolfram & Hart building appears to be destroyed. What might be the consequences of that?

How about this then? IF the Wolfram & Hart building is destroyed as the script implies, what might be the consequences of that?
 
Everything collapses. The senior partners holdback gets blown away the gloves are off as Angel put it.
They reveal themselves by the building collapsing,(I think they had an image they were conveying to cover up their true nature) only stage one of their wrath, Angel implied they delibratly started destroying the building, and that means they are letting loose all that was contained in the building, I.E parvayne and that thing in the basement, basically.Plus they let loose the army aswell, anything to try and out number the odds for Angel.
 
A
alexa
good point, who knows what was coming for him from the 'fail safe'
Sorry, didn't mean to give you grief, but yeah, we have no details that a liason to the Senior Partners has ever died, yet Illyria, who was god to a god, died along with all the other Old Ones.

But ok yeah, if the Wolfram and Hart building was destoryed, as i said before, i think the main problem is that the Failsafe would probably get loose. I doubt the contract would be destroyed, unless a fire started, but if it was just the building collapsing to a big pile of rubble, i'd say they would just be buried there. I didn't see the episode about Pavayne so i have no idea whether he would get loose or not.

Another thing to think about is, assuming the building just became a pile of rubble, what's to stop the looters, or the armies of the Senior Partners for that matter, digging around and finding Wesley's source books, and having any text they want?
 
Possibly when the building collapses, it's because Hamilton is dead, but that only causes the Los Angeles branch to collapse. We know that there are branches of W&H in most of the major cities on Earth, as well as probably in key points in other dimensions. Maybe each branch is an independant cell, each with its own equivalent to Hamilton (The Immortal could be the liason in Rome), a sort of overseer/enforcer whose job is to keep the boat from rocking (I really can't see Eve in that kind of a position, but then, she got fired, so...) who is so closely connected to the Senior Partners that they literally ARE Wolfram and Hart at that location. In that case, when Hamilton was defeated. the LA branch collapsed, alerting the Senior Partners and causing them to send their Hell Hoard there to clean up the mess.
 
Clem Rocks said:
Another thing to think about is, assuming the building just became a pile of rubble, what's to stop the looters, or the armies of the Senior Partners for that matter, digging around and finding Wesley's source books, and having any text they want?
Click to expand...

Yeah plus there's all those mystical, power laden artifacts. I sometimes wonder about that gun that siphoned off Illyria's power. Is that power still in there?

Then there's Eve. If she's still alive she knows how all that stuff works. She might want a little revenge on the guy who destroyed her life, and her love. I wouldn't be surprised to find people like Sirk digging around in there either. He's still alive, isn't he?
 
It's like some people have forgotten that immortal creatures die all the time in the Buffyverse (vampires etc), they just have different rules for dying.
Anyways, it's totally possible that the fail safe is one of the things in the alley, I'm sure they thought Hamilton could have handled Angel.
I think it's a definate that the building fell down, for one it was predestined that Eve would die, so when Angel says the building is coming down etc. time to go, she decides she doesn't care and stays to die. I also assumed that Pavayne escaped...
 
nerd4hire
In post number 13 you asked if we were giving you grief, you were wrong. You weren't being given grief, you'd need to earn it.
'Course if it was good grief then you'd get it, no problem.
Now you said Hamilton had a connection to the senior partners, yep I'd go with that, if you'd refer to Hamilton as Hammy, hmm, that seems to make their connection a bit more physical ?!. Furry even !.
As for the building being destroyed, it was implied but as it wasn't shown, I felt that it wasn't a big pile of crap on the ground, also, if it did all come down how did Angel [or any-one else] get out ?. The lift would be out of use, to many stairs to run down and Angel may have had a problem jumping out the window. Me saying the building came down caused me to many problems.
I don't know why the series was taken off the air, you'll have more access to that info than me, as far as I'm concerned though it was probably due to poor ratings, and what was going on at the end ? WR&H. The wr&h went on to long for me, Angel got to tied up in it so as for getting rid of the WR&H building, make the soddin thing vanish !!. In one of my fanfics I stated that Illyria thought about it and the whole flamin lot dissappeared to the dimension of shrimp with no way out. But I digress. You see what I thought of them though.
If the senior Partners were as all powerful as the series implied they'd have taken what was useful to them, don't think they'd have taken that Pavayne pratt though, he sent others to hell in his place so in theory he was cheating them, I don't think they would have liked that sort of thing. So bye, bye, Pavayne.
 
My question is how come Pavayne was manifesting himself when Angel was at W&H, and we do not get to hear of him in earlier seasons, If he was haunting the
building, surely he would of been delt with earlier?
Maybe he was usefull to the Sp?Maybe he was in the Ally with the demons, taking as much people to hell as possible....if the buildign collapesed it would of broken the machine holding him, and he would be out for revenge on Angel, now there'sa plot for season six!
 
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