The End

[Wesley Junior]

To those of you who have watched the final season of Angel or Buffy or both, what makes a great final season in your opinion? And what makes a terrible final season?

(The previous thread I created with the same title "The End" was deleted when the site was having difficulties so I felt the need to bring it back.)

 

[Zeppo]

- Going back to the beginning, whatever that may mean
- Revisiting favorite recurring characters
- Not messing with previous continuity for plot sake

The opposite of all those makes for a terrible last season.

 

[caritas08]

-
- Not messing with previous continuity for plot sake

The opposite of all those makes for a terrible last season.

I especially agree with this one. Too many series seem to take a copout of making the whole thing a dream or altered from reality and that really cheapens the experience. It's like they can't think of something emotionally moving to do and so they make it all not real for shock value.

I would also add that something significant needs to happen to further the story along or tie up loose ends in order to give the ending an "eventful" feel as opposed to just another episode.

 

[white avenger]

A good ending? "Chosen." The enemy had been faced, and the battle won. Certainly, there had been losses, grave ones. But, still, we were left with the feeling that, finally, our hero and her friends could step back from the fight, let the next generation take the burden, or at least the majority of it, and let "Mama Slayer" enjoy her well earned semi-retirement. By then, we even already knew that Spike was coming back the next season on "Angel," so the Spuffy/Bangel debate was still going strong. There was the definite feeling of hope for a brighter future. That's a good series ending.

By contrast, "Not Fade Away" ended with the battle just beginning, with Angel and his friends overwhelmingly outnumbered. Wes was dead and Gunn was well on the way to joining him. "Let's go to work..." freeze frame, and we're left saying..."Huh? What happened?" I absolutely HATE cliffhangers. I can accept one from one episode to the next, but not as a season ending and MOST CERTAINLY not as the ending for a series. There is no closure, no conclusion, and as it stood, no survival for the heroes. It was the Alamo or Thermopylae without even the noble death scene. This is, in my opinion, a very bad series ending.

 

[caritas08]

By contrast, "Not Fade Away" ended with the battle just beginning, with Angel and his friends overwhelmingly outnumbered. Wes was dead and Gunn was well on the way to joining him. "Let's go to work..." freeze frame, and we're left saying..."Huh? What happened?" I absolutely HATE cliffhangers. I can accept one from one episode to the next, but not as a season ending and MOST CERTAINLY not as the ending for a series. There is no closure, no conclusion, and as it stood, no survival for the heroes. It was the Alamo or Thermopylae without even the noble death scene. This is, in my opinion, a very bad series ending.

Angel was abruptly cancelled while Buffy's ending was planned so I can kind of forgive the cliffhanger status. These characters have fought just as bad numerous times and won so I didn't take it as a definite death nell except for Wesley and I don't mind the outcome of the battle being left open ended.

Where "Not Fade Away" really disappointed me was that it felt like I had waited five years for Angel to come to face to face with THE SENIOR PARTNERS. I mean these are the guys that have been pulling his strings since episode one (some would argue his time on Buffy) and we don't get some kind of meeting/face off with them? I also would have liked for the Shanshu to be answered (though I know the comics addressed that) but my main problem is the Senior Partners.

I would also like these questions answered.....

Who brought back Angel from hell after Buffy killed him in Becoming? (was it really the First)

What role will Angel play in the final Apocalypse?

How long have the Partners been watching Angel?

What was their initial purpose for bringing the team to Wolfram & Hart in Season 5?

What weaknesses did Lindsey (who apparently spent years researching the Partners) know about to bring them down? Lindsey wasn't stupid. He must have known something that made him come back to Dodge and get involved with WR&H again.

 

[Icarium]

BtVS S7 should be studied in schools as a textbook example of how not to make final seasons (or any seasons for that matter). Complementary lessons would include watching Charmed S8.

Anyway, the most obvious rule showrunners should follow would be to stop when their heart isn't in it, instead of milking the franchise for as much money as they can possibly get by butchering it beyond recognition. But of course, in Hollywood dignity loses to greed 99 times out of 100.

By contrast, "Not Fade Away" ended with the battle just beginning, with Angel and his friends overwhelmingly outnumbered. Wes was dead and Gunn was well on the way to joining him. "Let's go to work..." freeze frame, and we're left saying..."Huh? What happened?"

Well, I was left saying nothing because I was to busy picking my jaw off the floor. I never would have imagined that I would have loved an episode in which they kill Wesley in a rather silly fashion but that last stand was a thing of beauty (despite me not liking either of Angel, Spike and Illyria) and perfectly embodied what AtS was all about. If they had used a cheap deus ex machina (or two as in Chosen) to get an implasible victory against all odds this would have been far worse than any cliffhanger.

 

[Hale Caesar]

A good ending? "Chosen." The enemy had been faced, and the battle won. Certainly, there had been losses, grave ones. But, still, we were left with the feeling that, finally, our hero and her friends could step back from the fight, let the next generation take the burden, or at least the majority of it, and let "Mama Slayer" enjoy her well earned semi-retirement. By then, we even already knew that Spike was coming back the next season on "Angel," so the Spuffy/Bangel debate was still going strong. There was the definite feeling of hope for a brighter future. That's a good series ending.

I agree about Chosen, the episode is great. Too bad all of season 7 sucks. Why were the Potentials given a bigger role than Giles, Faith, Xander, Dawn and Willow? Spike loses his edge in season 7, he's not witty like he used to be, thank goodness he went to Angel and became awesome again. Season 7 is crap IMO

By contrast, "Not Fade Away" ended with the battle just beginning, with Angel and his friends overwhelmingly outnumbered. Wes was dead and Gunn was well on the way to joining him. "Let's go to work..." freeze frame, and we're left saying..."Huh? What happened?" I absolutely HATE cliffhangers. I can accept one from one episode to the next, but not as a season ending and MOST CERTAINLY not as the ending for a series. There is no closure, no conclusion, and as it stood, no survival for the heroes. It was the Alamo or Thermopylae without even the noble death scene. This is, in my opinion, a very bad series ending.

The whole point of AtS and Angel as a character was to keep fighting. Angel had the impossible task to make up for all the evil for he's done, and he never gave up. That's what "Not Fade Away" represented, the concept that no matter how bad things get, you have to keep fighting. If you can watch it with that in mind it's one of the most beautiful episodes in the Buffyverse, and IMO is a great deal better than Chosen.

In general I think Angel season 5 was much, much better than Buffy season 7

 

[Wesley Junior]

I think Angel has a better final season too.

 

[dexeded]

I don't know which I would consider better. Both had its merits and downfalls. For final seasons, Angel was better. For build-up, though, Angel just randomly introduced the Circle of the Black Thorn, while Buffy just introduced the axe (which I think wasn't as out of the blue as the Circle). As the finale... I was fine with the NFA ending of them fighting, because that's really what the series is all about--the fight never really ends. Chosen captured Buffy's theme too, and beautifully subverted the entire premise of there being only one girl in every generation to stand against the vampires and demons. So thematically, I think both endings were well done. But plotwise, Angel made more sense than BtVS, which was utter crap in storyline. Still liked both finales, though.