The European Constitution (sorry for the boredom)

Frenchy Faith

WMMWM *poke* :)
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Err, I know it's not an amazing topic & it rather bores me to hear about that topic.. but since we're going to vote within 2 weeks, I wondered what you all guys think about it.
I haven't read it (... yeah I know my bad) but I've heard good & bad thing over it. I really don't know what to think now.
I also wondered if it would matter since you Brits are probably going to vote no & since "all" the countries have to vote yes for it to be applied.
France so far is as much divided as the US were (lol) on the topic.. no wins maybe by 2% so far...
So, any feedback on this to help me to make up my mind guys?
 
so like...there's going to be a constitution for europe??...why haven't i heard of this...isn't this kinda important...

how long is this constitution....
 
Yeah, & it's surprising you didn't heard because in hear they are making such a fuss over it... it's like parties are divided & they fight against one another to get people to vote yes or no.

We have a referendum about it. Spain also had it, they voted yes already. Germany & some other had none, it's their Parliement or something who voted yes.

Here are some infos about it : http://www.cer.org.uk/eu/
 
Yikes, a thread on the EU. How scary. 🙂

Well, that's a very good website, if you want a one sided debate. This British website gives the no argument, at least for the British.

http://www.vote-no.com/home/home.aspx

Whether you are pro constitution or not, it is very likely that if the French don't vote no, the British will. The UK electorate, (like myself) are already very eurosceptic, and they may use the referendum in the UK to give Blair another bloody nose.

It's not needed and will further wrap the EU in more red tape and statist bureaucracy.
 
DarkSoul said:
Whether you are pro constitution or not, it is very likely that if the French don't vote no, the British will. The UK electorate, (like myself) are already very eurosceptic, and they may use the referendum in the UK to give Blair another bloody nose.

Yeah, I guessed for the British as you guys are well-known for your euroscepticism (no generalization but facts show it so)... but I wouldn't be so sure about the French voting yes you know, as today, the vote is said to win according to the canvass opinion...
Still don't know what to vote though... : erm :
 
Yeah, would have been cool if I actually got to vote on this. But no no. Not me. Not the Swedes, it's a too difficult decision for us to make apparently.

Um yea sorry, I know not nearly all countries are voting on this but still, bugs me, mmhm.
 
I dunno Eps, we're still trying to figure out whether to vote on this matter or let the suit-clad-fellas up there in the parlament decide. Well actually, they are the ones who are trying to figure it out cause I guess that most swedes are really fond of the idea of voting on this matter.

I would totally vote NO, no and NO.
 
E
eponinethen
Yea I know that was just me being... um.. me? (And trying to act pissed off, heh.)
Hmm..strangely enough media are quite quiet bout the constitution now(guess it's coz of Pope's death-coz we still get a lot of programmes bout him..).One way or another..even if we get to vote I won't be able to-alas being in the UK..but I'd vote yes..even without the beginning of it being bout God..coz that's pretty much ridiculous for me..
 
Seems that the Dutch are going to vote no as well, but their Government has said that it is a "consultative" vote only. What kind of democracy is that? If they vote no, the Government will just ignore the result and happily ratify the constitution. That is one of the problems with the whole EU project, the lack of a proper demoractic tradition.
 
P
polexia
i hear ya!
Alright, no more wondering... The "No" won with 55% ... I guess they are giving up on it, at least for a moment... time for politician to reconsider what they put in it... & supposedly no one else will have to decide abut it since every country had to say yes about it... see you all in 3196 (maybe not that early) when they'll finally find something on which all 25 country can agree... errrr :scared08:
 
When Ireland voted No to the Nice Treaty they just made us vote again until they got the answer they wanted. The EU Constitution is too long, it's too wordy, it's too detailed. A Constitution is a core document, a declaration of intent. It's supposed to clarify things. They've gone the wrong way about pleasing everybody, by including far too much instead of making a simple, relevant-to-everybody document.

The US Constitution has survived so relatively intact for so long because it says what it bloody well means. Compare the opening lines:

US Constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "

That's nice. It's formal but lean, it says where we're going with this, and leaves you with a warm fuzzy feeling inside. And if it gets a little murkier further in, well, we've started well. From there, you hit Article 1, which is about the powers of Congress. Off to a flying start.

Whereas, the EU Constitution, not including the two page table of contents, starts thus:

EU Constitution:
"DRAWING INSPIRATION from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, from which have developed the universal values of the inviolable and inalienable rights of the human person, freedom, democracy, equality and the rule of law,

BELIEVING that Europe, reunited after bitter experiences, intends to continue along the path of civilisation, progress and prosperity, for the good of all its inhabitants, including the weakest and most deprived; that it wishes to remain a continent open to culture, learning and social progress; and that it wishes to deepen the democratic and transparent nature of its public life, and to strive for peace, justice and solidarity throughout the world,

CONVINCED that, while remaining proud of their own national identities and history, the peoples of Europe are determined to transcend their former divisions and, united ever more closely, to forge a common destiny,

CONVINCED that, thus "˜United in diversity', Europe offers them the best chance of pursuing, with due regard for the rights of each individual and in awareness of their responsibilities towards future generations and the Earth, the great venture which makes of it a special area of human hope,

DETERMINED to continue the work accomplished within the framework of the Treaties establishing the European Communities and the Treaty on European Union, by ensuring the continuity of the Community acquis,

GRATEFUL to the members of the European Convention for having prepared the draft of this Constitution on behalf of the citizens and States of Europe..."


See what I mean? It's trying to say something reasonably nice, but it's drowning in all the needless crap. There are 50 word sentences in there - and we aren't even into the actual meat of the thing yet. You could have said exactly the same thus:

"United in Diversity, to progress from our past, we the people of Europe hold this as our Constitution, to benefit all member nations equally and secure the rights of each individual. "

That sounds like a moany complaint, but that stuff is important. We need to be on the same page here. If it takes three pages for us to say "This is our Constitution" how on Earth does that achieve anything? If that takes so much effort, how do we make sure we understand the important stuff the same way?
 
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