The European Elections

[Silum]

I cannot be bothered with one of the probable long winded back and forths that usually come with responding to you, so I'm just going to say this and no more.
A persons religious beliefs have absolutely no place within the governing of a people.
The State and the Church should forever be two separate entities.

Sorry, I was agreeing with your first bit.

I guess this probably would result in a back and forth (I too can't be arsed, im watching The Apprentice...and dont spoil it for me!!) so I'll state my reasoning real quick....

Yes...beliefs are very different from the governing of the people. But the governing of the people has to be represented by people with like minded beliefs to your own when you are voting. This becomes extremely evident in various moral issues (Abortion for example)... so as a voter... a singular voter with your own beliefs...you are going to take your faith with extreme importance in how you place your vote.

Separation of church and State has come to mean something COMPLETELY different than what it was originally intended. As if somehow people with faiths should ignore their beliefs on certain issues to focus on socially more important issues. Yes the Church as an organisation(look into the Catholic religion and its intervening in political issues through the ages if you want to know where the reasoning lies) should remain absent from political issues...but this has NOTHING to do with the ethical or moral beliefs of the voters and how they vote...and it very much defines the way people vote on core issues that are explicitly defined in ones faith. In the UK, its not as much as an issue because the majority share is in atheism and agnostisim. But religion most certainly plays apart when you are determining the direction of your country.

Crap.... I swear i didnt mean to write a long post... or to start a debate. Yikes

---------- Post added at 02:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------

Edmund Blackadder disagrees: I only read the firsr and last line but I am sure I disagree with the main body but can't be arsed to read. Ohh and don't read my Apprentice related FB update!

Heck even going on here im worried i'm gonna spoil myself! Its already looking pretty good for both though... Actually... basil chocolates are pretty damn stupid!

back on topic...errr Europe ....elections.... evil Mr Brown...

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Another BNP seat !

---------- Post added at 02:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 AM ----------

back on topic...errr Europe ....elections.... evil Mr Brown...

I'll let you discuss it with someone else!

 

[InsaneMystic]

In Germany the CDU won. Let's all go kill ourselves.

The German CDU - Christian Democratic Union
Doesn't that make your skin crawl a bit - Religion and Politics have no justifiable reason to be joined!

I agree... I've never liked the CDU either (even though they're slightly better than their sister party, the Bavarian CSU - Christian Social Union - whose brand of conservatism is about as near to the extreme right as a democratic party can get); brandishing religion in your party's name = not good.

Sadly, the CDU/CSU doesn't have any real competition in German politics nowadays. Our Social Democrats (SPD), the only real competition for strongest party (and the one that our former chancellor Schröder belonged to), have been weak for years, especially since the rise of the Socialist/Indep merger party "Die Linke" (one of their two leaders is a former SPD member who's still regarded as a traitor by SPD officials).

In fact, the only real questions about the next German parliamentary election will be 1.) who the CDU chancellor will be in coalition with - Free Democrats (FDP), or Social Democrats once more (that's the "big coalition" we have governing us atm). It's pretty unlikely the CDU would have absolute majority and could rule alone, but nobody seriously doubts that they will be the strongest party and thus, appoint the chancellor again... and 2.) whether we'll get around one of the neo-fascist parties getting seats on the national parliament. So far, we managed to keep them out of it by virtue of the 5% rule - you have to get at least this many votes to get any parliamentary seats at all, so very minor parties don't make it in - but we have "brown guys" sitting on some of the regional parliaments, especially in Eastern Germany, so it's always a risk they could make it into the national, too... which would, of course, suck big time - even though they'd indubitably remain politically isolated, it would make them gain the right to spout their racist-nationalist rhethorics in parliament.

 

[Friendly Lurker]

Right-wing populists got a seat in Finland too. They're not nearly as bad as BNP but it's still somewhat sad.

Another funny thing: the Pirate Party of Sweden got a seat too.

 

[Washburne]

Another funny thing: the Pirate Party of Sweden got a seat too.

Hey, I was gonna say that. 😉 They got 7,1% of the votes. So now a lot of people think we're sending pirates. Will do the image of Sweden a lot of good. 😛

The party in power got slightly more votes than last time actually. That surprised me a little.


And it seems half a million more people voted for EU this time around which meant a stunning 43,8% of the population voted...

 

[XDruX]

In France the UMP (Union for a Popular Movement) won the elections, followed by the Socialist party and the Greens... No big surprise, sadly...

The (European) turnout isn't that bad... 44% ....

 

[Silum]

Kristine disagrees: You make it sound like not being religious equals not having any morals

Then you misunderstood me.

 

[Miss Universe]

It must be stated that the SNP, Scottish National Party, are not in any way affiliated with the BNP beliefs!

Just wanted to repeat that. Definitely NOTHING to do with the BNP.

The SNP seek to advance Scotland to independence. Which I totally WANT, WANT WAAAAANT.

 

[Willowsgirl]

Mr P - I agree that Labour has probably been stuffed tonight, but to be fair, I don't think any UK Political Party deserves a positive win tonight - even my beloved Conservative Party!

Sometimes I wish we could simply scrap every single MP in all the parties, and re-recruit.

Have an interim Government for like a year while some independant bodies choose PPC's for each party then have a full general election (though its far from the inappropriate time - though when is?!).

Scrap certain practices and shake up the rules too.

Way I see it, the people who spend their lives wanting to be MP's are exactly the type of people who shouldn't be in charge - irrespective of what party they support.

Vive that revolution!

This, in a nutshell, is how I feel about the Democrats and Republicans here in the Untied States. If I had my way, certain members in congress on both sides of the isle would be gone, a strong independent party would be formed and a lot of the rules would be changed. Sadly, a lot of people still follow the party lines and thus you pretty much have to sell your soul in order to have a shot at any office here.

The result is all politicians promising the world, but delivering the same old crap as the rest of the politicians, as well as lying sacks or crap. To quote Lewis Black "My government has always lied to me, I'm comfortable with that." Like him, a lot of people are "comfortable with that" and it drives me insane!

/Anti politician rant over!

 

[Miss Universe]

When the options are people who seem to be wasting your tax money and people who are a little bit racist, sadly people think of their pockets before equality!

Hmm.. I think they're more than a "little bit racist".

 

[Big Damn Hero]

My Dad votes BNP.
I've had so many arguments about him with it it's ridiculous, and I only stopped challenging his point because of the arguments it caused and he wouldn't budge a bit.
Funny* thing is, he's a real history buff, in particular the holocaust & nazi germany.

Actually, while I'm here, does anyone have any links etc that I could show him (because the risk of being lashed out at is far less if done over the internet!)


*Funny peculiar, not funny haha.

 

[Bluebird]

Yeah, the BNP are simply Nazis. Founded by people who look up to Hitler and their current leader, Nick Griffin who denies the holocaust.

BNP leader Nick Griffin advising the KKK on how to hide their racism until they get into power.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LY9eRBrmTE"]YouTube - Nick griffin discusses Nazi strategy at KKK rally[/ame]

And from the video description - their manifesto. Read it, it's a laugh.

"Racism, in other words, is not a consequence of false consciousness, economics, imperialism or the work of evil agitators, it is part of HUMAN NATURE." (2005 General Election Manifesto page 18)

"We believe that the myth that we are all the same under the skin will soon be as discredited as its feminist equivalent, and that all political parties will have to drastically amend their thinking to reflect the new reality in the not too distant future." (2005 General Election Manifesto page 17)

"When we speak of British democracy we do so in an ETHNIC sense. We do not accept the absurd superstition of HUMAN EQUALITY. Whether the feminist argument, to the egalitarian claim that everyone within a given population is born as a blank slate with the same innate potential, or to the denial of the existence of differences on average between members of different races we reject all these irrational myths." (2005 General Election Manifesto, page 17)

1) "Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of a defined racial group this being Indigenous Caucasian." (BNP Constitution, section 2:1, page 4)

2) "THE BNP IS WHOLLY OPPOSED TO ANY FORM OF RACIAL INTEGRATION between British (WHITE) and non-European (NON-WHITE) peoples. It is therefore committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948." (BNP Constitution, Section 1:2b, page 3)

3) "In the understanding that genocide through integration is a threat to all peoples across the world, we also intend to develop a model of multi-culturalism which combines peaceful co existence with the maintenance of cultural and BIOLOGICAL SEPARATION." (2005 General Election Manifesto, page 20)

4) "We would repeal the Race Relations Acts and all other restrictions on free speech in Britain." (2005 General Election Manifesto, page 20)

5) "We would abolish all laws against racial discrimination in employment and the government bodies associated with enforcing them." (2005 General Election Manifesto, page 20)

6) "A Clause 28-style proscription against the promotion of racial integration in schools and the media would be introduced." (2005 General Election Manifesto, page 20)

7) "We will seek to emphasize the importance of the prior status of the aboriginal (white) people. This would be a national extension of the Sons and Daughters policy in priority on housing and school places lists, which BNP councils seek to implement at local level." (2005 General Election Manifesto, page 21)

8) "A massively-funded and permanent programme, will aim to reduce, by voluntary resettlement to their lands of ethnic origin, the proportion of ethnic minorities (non-white) living in Britain." (2005 General Election Manifesto, page 20)

"Those who have been arrested will not be allowed to remove any assets from the country when they are deported." (BNP 2005 Election Manifesto, page 16)

9) " All law-abiding adults who have successfully completed their period of military service are required to keep in a safe locker in their homes a standard-issue military assault rifle and ammunition." (2005 Election Manifesto, page 12)

10) "Compulsory National Service would begin at the age of 18. Conscientious objectors would not receive the citizens right to be armed, or the RIGHT TO VOTE." (2005 Election Manifesto, page 52)

11) "The National Chairman shall have full EXECUTIVE POWER OVER ALL the AFFAIRS of the party." (Constitution, Section 3:1, page 5)

"The manifesto you have read is very much a working document. We will however never betray nor change our FUNDAMENTAL CORE VALUES." (2005 Election Manifesto, page 53)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/BNP_uk_manifesto.pdf

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Last night, I was pretty disgusted with the result. There is one small comfort with the BNP situation, however. Their share of the vote didn't go up much at all. So, it wasn't that more people were voting for them - it was mainly the same extremists who would vote for them under any circumstances. The deciding factor was that Labour's share of the vote was so cripplingly low that the BNP could win a seat with 8% of the votes. (I think that number is correct for Yorkshire, but forgive me if I'm mistaken. It's from memory.) Of course, there has been a shift - however slight - towards their policies, but people aren't actually switching their vote to them. They just aren't voting at all, and the protest votes are spread so thinly across the Torys, UKIP, the Lib Dems, the Greens and the BNP that the percentage required has dropped significantly.

It's still a disturbing situation, however. People who voted for the BNP were being interviewed on various news programs today...and they were spouting the same nonsense that the media has been about immigration. Is that the root of their political stance? That's worrying, but not exactly unexpected.

 

[Flannen]

Immigration seems to be the primary 'pull' to vote for the BNP, which as Lindsey said, is not unexpected.

My boyfriend had it on as I was going to sleep and I ended up being wide awake, out of pure anger, as I listened to Nick Griffin and Brons trying to argue that they aren't racist. It was so infuriating. And they've been on the radio and stuff all day today.

They got 2000 votes in the town I live in, which is a lot considering our population. But the funniest thing is, Clacton is predominately white!

I really want to go on, but right now it still makes me so mad that I can't even formulate anything that makes sense right now. I'll get back to you 😛

 

[CotA]

Not a lot of love for the BNP on this board.

 

[Bluebird]

Not a lot of love for the BNP on this board.

Haha, there's plenty of reasons why!

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Hmm.. I think they're more than a "little bit racist".

Yes, and most MP's don't waste our Taxes, the whole comment was tinged with sarcasm!

Miss Universe agrees: what would you have rather I said?

You can say whatever you want, I just wanted to put you right. I abhor any form of intolerance that infringes on another persons rights, but its not THE most disgusting thing.
Its not meant to stir the pot, its just a rational comment about an irrational, almost mediaesque, response to something.

'Its political correctness, gone mad'!

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 PM ----------

Not a lot of love for the BNP on this board.

Don't be so sure, just because people aren't saying it, doesn't mean it isn't there - if you look carefully at certain topics, you will see that there are some members that might not be averse to voting the British Nazi Party!

 

[Washburne]

Not a lot of love for the BNP on this board.

To be fair, not that many have posted (saying bad things) considering how many members we have. And if some did like them I don't think they would be in the mood of saying so right now since they would probably be bashed.

edit: And I'm back to being late...

 

[Miss Universe]

Is it politically correct to even be here?

*leaves thread*

 

[Silum]

I'm completely ignorant on politics but decided to give a few hours of my day getting to grips with some of the parties. I must say, I am very surprised that a party like BNP exists, or that they are getting so many votes. Its dangerous that they even exist, let alone now hold seats in our government.

Their defence against racism from their website is particulaly entertaining. I wont go into it here, but its along the lines of equality is quite hypocritical since their are numerous 'black' groups and centres dedicated to minorities, but have a white community center and suddenly your a racist. That bit I do agree with, their is a double standard, especially when you consider how percentage wise were all becoming minorities anyway. But to argue that your not racist by saying 'look at all the other racists' sounds quite funny to me. But thats not what they are supporting anyway! They dont want more services or help for white people...they want to remove all non-whites from the population! The want to 'purify' the nation (Hitler anyone?).

I must be mistaken though, I refuse to believe we are going back to the days of Hitler and that people in our country would actually vote for that, we were the Allies!! I'd say I was just reading anti-BNP propaganda if I weren't reading it from their own site!