The Faith and Willow hypocrisy

[white avenger]

I know all this - but I also know that when it came time to decide, Giles, Willow and Xander all trusted her. I am saying something nice about Faith. The fact that they trusted her really does speak well of her. Kicking out Buffy is a completely different issue, and I really think Faith did the best she could with that.

If they didn't want Faith, believe me they could have managed to push her out - instead they embraced her as a leader. Now I do have issues with the motivations of some other characters, but really Faith is pretty blameless here.

I'm in no way trying to blame Faith for anything, certainly not the mutiny. Faith is one of my favorite characters in the Buffyverse, and, frankly, I think that Eliza had a harder, as well as more interesting, character to portray, and did a better job of playing her, than Sarah ever did with Buffy. Faith had to go from champion to villain, then back again, within the space of fewer episodes than would have comprised an single Season, and do it in such a way that, like James with Spike, she attracted a considerable fan base. Buffy started out as the Champion and never was anything else.

But remember, they DID push Faith out, at least from the role of leadership, and after only a single failed mission. Yes, she was injured and out of action for a few days, but if she had had all that much trust and support, there would have been no reason to have put Buffy back in charge. She would have returned to authority as soon as she was back on her feet again. Not only did they welcome Buffy back, they followed her on a much more desperate mission than returning to the vineyard ever could have been.

 

[bespangeled]

But remember, they DID push Faith out, at least from the role of leadership, and after only a single failed mission. Yes, she was injured and out of action for a few days, but if she had had all that much trust and support, there would have been no reason to have put Buffy back in charge. She would have returned to authority as soon as she was back on her feet again. Not only did they welcome Buffy back, they followed her on a much more desperate mission than returning to the vineyard ever could have been.

They put the only person physically able to do the job back on the job. That wasn't a slap at Faith - she understood she wasn't up to it. In fact, I like the way that Buffy and Faith seemed to share their power after that. Having someone more familiar and experienced take over is just practical. The mission is what matters.

 

[white avenger]

That wasn't a slap at Faith

Certainly not. It was a slap at the people who mutinied in the first place. Slayer One takes them into battle and gets people killed and injured, so they kick her out and put Slayer Two in charge. Then, Slayer Two takes them into battle and gets more people killed and injured, plus getting herself blown up, so they put Slayer One back in charge. This makes no sense at all. If both Slayers get people killed and injured, it would be more believable, not to mention allowing him to regain a little respect from me, if the Potentials had decided to put Giles in charge, but he declined, making some sort of speech about how wrong they had been kicking Buffy out in the first place, then apologizing to her and asking her to please take charge once more. We never saw that, not from Giles, Willow, Xander, or Dawn, and it was something that would have made what followed more believable in my opinion. We didn't need a scene where Buffy said, "I told you so," but there should have been some acknowledgement from the mutineers that they had been wrong in throwing her out, or creating a situation where she felt that she could no longer stay in her own home.

(This is why I have always wished that the mutineers had left rather than throwing Buffy out. They could have had the same bedroom scene with Buffy and Spike, which was essential to the story line, in Buffy's own home and bedroom, without the need of explaining why he could get in without an invite, but then we could have seen the others asking to be allowed to come back)

 

[Snyder]

This always kind of bothered me. Faith accidentally kills a guy which sends her down her self destructive path. This was the trigger for her. Willow straight up tortured and murdered a guy. Yes, he killed her girlfriend, it is understandable but slightly different to Faith's situation. Willow had unconditional support through everything and still went ahead and killed Warren. Now put down the pitchforks, I'm not ragging on Willow, I just think her murdering Warren didn't have many consequences for her.

It seems that for the rest of her life Faith is labeled as a murderer because she faced up to what she did, but Willow never faces punishment or even acknowledges it in S7.

Actually, it would have been very cool to have a scene between Faith and Willow in S7 talking about what Willow done. Considering their past, and how Willow ended up, she's a lot more in common with Faith than Buffy.

I like Faith a lot more than I like Willow. A LOT. But I see no hypocrisy there. Willow was a friend who they all knew and loved and she had done good for years. She goes dark because of something bad happened to her and because of the dark magic (external cause) and it's just a matter of a few days. What she does is not so different rom what Buffy does in normal again. On the other hand Faith was no friend and there wasn't much love there and yeah she was doing good but she didn't have really a good attitude (she thought she was above the law). She goes dark because of something bad she does and there are no external cuases, it's her choice. And she is bad for a lot of time and does much more than killing that guy by accident. She allies with the major, tries to kill Buffy, almost kills Angel, takes Buffy's body and tries to take her whole life, her friends, her boyfriend. It's much worse and unforgivable from their pov. I can totally see why they wouldn't accept her easily. Love Faith though!

 

[Xin Rong]

Buffy kills humans in self defense and no-one bats an eye lid, Faith does it in a quasi self defense way and she's the devil... as an earlier poster stated, it comes down to their age. They're much more idealistic in the earlier seasons, I for one, thought that Buffy was a little sanctimonious in her reaction to an accident when it came to Faith, even if she did show the same morality when she thought she'd killed the girl in season 6. Faith lived in the grey her whole life, she had a practical nature and lacked the idealism brought about by a good up-bringing that others had benefited from. That's not a criticism of either, especially considering they were both young, none of them handled the situation well and it led to chaos - dynamite story telling in my opinion
 

I like Faith a lot more than I like Willow. A LOT. But I see no hypocrisy there. Willow was a friend who they all knew and loved and she had done good for years. She goes dark because of something bad happened to her and because of the dark magic (external cause) and it's just a matter of a few days. What she does is not so different rom what Buffy does in normal again. On the other hand Faith was no friend and there wasn't much love there and yeah she was doing good but she didn't have really a good attitude (she thought she was above the law). She goes dark because of something bad she does and there are no external cuases, it's her choice. And she is bad for a lot of time and does much more than killing that guy by accident. She allies with the major, tries to kill Buffy, almost kills Angel, takes Buffy's body and tries to take her whole life, her friends, her boyfriend. It's much worse and unforgivable from their pov. I can totally see why they wouldn't accept her easily. Love Faith though!

Buffy: 'I am the law'

 

[Snyder]

Buffy: 'I am the law'

and the point is?

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Let's not forget the mandate that is repeated as the intro: "In every generation there is a Chosen One. She alone will stand against the vampires, the demons and the forces of darkness. She is the Slayer." Deputy mayor Finch is definitely working for the forces of darkness, so he would be fair game for the slayer according to the mandate.

Warren is definitely a force of darkness. Although Willow is not a slayer, the person she flayed had shot the slayer just before killing Tara. He uses magic and various supernatural effects to ruin Buffy's life in "Life Serial", turn Buffy invisible (and headed for death) in "Gone", killed Katrina and tried to blame Buffy in "Dead Things", escaped using a jet pack after Buffy took the orbs of Nezzla'khan that made him invincible in "Seeing Red" after foiling a heist perpetrated by the Trio and puts together a decoy Warrenbot in "Villains". There is no way the law could hold him or even apply to him. This is a righteous kill.

 

[YummySushiPJs]

TBH the show is full of double standards like this, and you can come up with reasons why but the only real reason is it depends on the story the writers wanted to tell.

For example, Xander hated Angel for being previously evil, even though Angel was tortured and apologetic, yet he happpily got engaged to an ex-demon who was seemingly proud of her evil past.

And it's for the best. Buffy wouldn't be a very good show if it just repeated the same story over and over. So the characters have to react differently each time a similar situation comes up so that the writers can tell a different story.