The first evil,Could it be the ulimate evil .;)!

ukkid09

Potential
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
485
Location
uk
I was disspointed with the first in season 7 , i thought the first was weak and i thought it could be potential unstopable . The First Evil claims to be the source and embodiment of all that is evil,So would you think it be unstopable because it is embodiment of all that is evil ,GOD,Old ones,Vampire ECT . The First evil is older than any other evil being and may even be the very first entity ever to have existed.So that just prove that the identity of the first could be much more higher and stronger then any big bad in the Buffy verse ..
Do you agree....
 
I've always interpreted the title "First Evil" as meaning the "GREATEST Evil," as in, all of the evil creatures, beings, demons, etc. in the world had a contest to determine which one was the most evil, and it got first prize, rather than the "ORIGINAL Evil." I don't recall whether Joss ever gave any clarification one way or the other, but having Buffy and her crew attempt to defeat, or even subdue the very embodiment of everything evil in the world would seem unrealistic, even in a show that has a fantasy format.
 
I've always interpreted the title "First Evil" as meaning the "GREATEST Evil," as in, all of the evil creatures, beings, demons, etc. in the world had a contest to determine which one was the most evil, and it got first prize, rather than the "ORIGINAL Evil." I don't recall whether Joss ever gave any clarification one way or the other, but having Buffy and her crew attempt to defeat, or even subdue the very embodiment of everything evil in the world would seem unrealistic, even in a show that has a fantasy format.

I agree, Personally i believe That first will exsist forever, evil will continue ,because that is realistic because you can not destroy evil ,evil will continue like the force of good will continue..
The Greatest evil , would you think more powerful..? Buffy,and the scoobies work for the forces of good so they fight for the survival of good To make the balance just right ..!
 
I think the First Evil is the Ultimate Evil as its the only evil throughout the whole series that Buffy and the Scoobies have not gotten rid of. I mean they foiled its plan of bringing terror and destruction to the world by destroying the Hellmouth but they didn't destroy THE First. It will always exist. But don't Buffy and pals (especially Giles) think that the First could go to Cleveland as there is a Hellmouth there. Or is the First too lazy to poof its ass over there?
Have a read of this info on the First and tell me what you think

The First Evil is the absolute source and embodiment of all that is evil. Older than demons, Old Ones, and even gods who are themselves older than humans, it is older than the written word and transcends all realities and dimensions; it is older than any other being and is even the very first entity ever to have existed. It is said that the First lurked in the darkness long before the universe was even created and shall remain long after the universe ends. Few have heard of it and even fewer believe in its existence. The entity cannot affect the world on a physical level. Its power lies in its ability to deceive, torment and manipulate others. It can take the form of any person who has died.

The First has a deep understanding of human nature since it can copy the thoughts and mannerisms of all human beings who have died. It uses the knowledge to drive others to madness and such acts as murder and suicide. Since she had died before, the First Evil often appeared as Buffy in the last season of the series. The First has appeared in its true form as an enormous silvery demon with large horns and long, talon-shaped fingers. For technical purposes, The First Evil is neither male, female, demon, nor god; it is a power. During Christmas 1998, The First appeared in Sunnydale. It tried to drive the vampire Angel into killing Buffy by appearing to him as Daniel, Margaret, Travis and Jenny Calendar, people Angelus had murdered. It told Angel that it was responsible for his return from Hell and that he could end his sufferings by turning evil again. It did not mind when Angel chose to die in a sunrise instead; either plan would have been a massive blow to the forces of good, eliminating either the Slayer or the best (and, at the time, only) candidate for the Shanshu Prophecy.

After Buffy's confrontation with the First, Buffy attempted to stop Angel from committing suicide. While Buffy was attempting to talk Angel into leaving the hilltop, a rare snowfall occurred, with the sun remaining unseen. Buffy's second resurrection caused an irregularity in the Slayer line. The First tried to use this glitch to eliminate the Slayers forever. The First Evil had the vicious preacher Caleb command the Harbingers of Death, as they sought and hunted down the Chosen line, young girls with the potential to become slayers. Buffy had visions of these murders in her sleep. Several characters and creatures referenced the First in the first few episodes of season 7. Halfrek told Anyanka "Something's rising. Something older than the Old Ones, and everybody's tail is twitching,". It tormented the vampire Spike after he had returned from Africa with his soul.

The First appeared to Spike in such guises as Warren Mears, Glorificus, Adam, Mayor Richard Wilkins III, Drusilla, The Master and Buffy. After Spike accidentally stabs a human, the First appeared in the form of a nice, more forgiving Buffy to continue to taunt him. The First also appeared to Andrew Wells in Mexico as Warren Mears, instructing him to buy an ancient knife. The nightmares it brought to Andrew and Jonathan Levinson drove them back to Sunnydale. The First Evil began using a traditional English folk song ("Early One Morning") as a trigger to drive Spike to sire again. It also very likely masqueraded as Joyce Summers to her younger daughter, Dawn, and warned her that in the end, Buffy would not choose her. The First appeared to Willow as Cassie Newton, claiming to be a messenger from her dead lover Tara, but went too far as it asked Willow to commit suicide. It also appeared to troubled nerd Andrew Wells as his dead friend Warren, and drove him into killing their friend Jonathan on the Seal of Danzalthar, right above the Hellmouth. The sacrifice yielded too little blood because it turned out Jonathan was anemic, as well as small-statured.

The First then sent the Bringers to kill the potential slayer Nora and her watcher Robson in London, England. It also goaded Spike into battling Buffy so one of them would be killed. The First Evil then appeared to Andrew as both Warren and Jonathan. The First Evil appeared to Spike, as Spike himself, to trick him into killing Andrew, only to be foiled by Buffy again. It then sent some Harbingers to kidnap Spike from Buffy's house to bleed him to raise the first Turok-Han out of the Hellmouth. Meanwhile, the First's minion Caleb blew up The Watchers Council as they gathered. It also once manifested itself in such a way as to destroy an attempted spell by Willow, thus increasing her fear of using magic. Buffy later dreams of her late mother, and believes this is an appearance of The First.

In 2003, viewers saw the First Evil masquerade as Eve, a potential slayer previously killed by the Harbingers, to spy on Buffy and encourage the potentials to doubt Buffy’s leadership. The First Evil took a break after Buffy decapitated the Turok-Han and freed its hostage Spike. A few weeks later, The First again appeared to Andrew as Jonathan, instructing him to use a gun to kill the potential slayers but subsequently became angry with Andrew and Buffy's friends when Andrew wore a wire so they could record the First Evil. Continuing to monger fear among the Potential Slayers, the First Evil appeared to Chloe, taunting her to commit suicide before appearing to Buffy and the potentials as Chloe, making them feel partly responsible for Chloe’s death. The First Evil later summoned its head minion Caleb to Sunnydale where they set up base at the Shadow Valley Vineyards, where Buffy and the potentials were dealt a defeat at Caleb’s hands. Using the Harbingers, the First Evil had them excavate the mystic Slayer's Scythe from a rock while at the same time tricking slayer Faith into a trap. Then it masqueraded as the Mayor in order to throw Faith off-guard, telling her to be wary of Buffy. When Buffy later went to the vineyards and stole the Scythe, The First Evil instructed Caleb to let her go and informed Buffy that Faith and the potential slayers had just been killed in an explosion. Buffy rushed to their rescue and most of them survived.

After Buffy split the First's minion Caleb in half with the Scythe, the First Evil taunted her for being alone, which gave her an idea. Buffy asked Willow to use the essence of the Scythe to make every potential slayer a full Slayer and led a proactive strike on the Turok-Han army within the Hellmouth itself. The First taunted Buffy after she was stabbed through the abdomen, but she recovered. An amulet, given to Buffy by Angel, that Spike was wearing created beams of sunlight which wiped out every Turok-Han and destroyed the Hellmouth. The First is one of the few villains in the series that were never killed off. As an incorporeal entity, the First Evil cannot be physically harmed. Buffy makes it clear that evil is eternal and omnipresent. The foiling of its plans are to it but a minor setback since it "has an eternity to act."
 
I suppose I'm a bit torn about The First. On one hand, Buffy and gang are as close to fighting pure evil as they can possibly get (without actually putting their hands on it), which is quite cool. But, and this is a strange comment because it's a positive and a negative, the First can never really be defeated, even if it's plans are foiled. Now, the First wasn't easily defeated--and I don't mean to say that it was difficultly defeated. It wasn't defeated at all. Evil still exists (otherwise no season 8), which, in my interpretation, means that the First still exists. All villains talk a big game, but I always interpreted the First as being trustworthy in his proclamations of being the source of all evil. It wasn't like in Scooby Doo, and you'd just find out "Hah, no I'm not really pure evil, I'm just some floaty CGI thing!".

So, no, they didn't defeat it which is disappointing... but it's also a necessary statement to make that you can't wipe out Evil, and Buffy and her gang will always fight it.
 
I suppose I'm a bit torn about The First. On one hand, Buffy and gang are as close to fighting pure evil as they can possibly get (without actually putting their hands on it), which is quite cool. But, and this is a strange comment because it's a positive and a negative, the First can never really be defeated, even if it's plans are foiled. Now, the First wasn't easily defeated--and I don't mean to say that it was difficultly defeated. It wasn't defeated at all. Evil still exists (otherwise no season 8), which, in my interpretation, means that the First still exists. All villains talk a big game, but I always interpreted the First as being trustworthy in his proclamations of being the source of all evil. It wasn't like in Scooby Doo, and you'd just find out "Hah, no I'm not really pure evil, I'm just some floaty CGI thing!".

So, no, they didn't defeat it which is disappointing... but it's also a necessary statement to make that you can't wipe out Evil, and Buffy and her gang will always fight it.

Yep, you got it!! I actually think the idea of making the big... ultimate.... bad, The First is brilliant. They didn't actually destroy The First but they might have come as close as ayone ever has! I don't think it was dissapointing I think it was a miracle!!:cheering:
 
Evil is what you make of it. That's why the First Evil couldn't touch anything physically, or be touched. Evil isn't physical, only the beings that give evil it's meaning. It isn't immortal at all, as it's mortality resides upon the people it corrupts. That's why it sneaks into people's minds; It fears them. It needs them. It never directly tries to kill anyone if their death wouldn't bring more evil into the world, because it knows that it's powers are the powers we give it. Remember, from beneath you it devours. I always took that phrase to mean that it's amount of power is like someone walking on a pothole without looking at it. They think they just stepped into a bottomless pit but it's really just a small hole, but the fright of thinking you're about to plunge to your death gives that small hole more power than it deserves, even killing people who trip or are weak of heart, and are too afraid to look. But when they do look, they assume that everyone will just step over it, because of how small it is in the sidewalk. Until, of course, someone steps into it again... Because that's fear. What we make up for things we can't see. What we invent to build the world we don't know. That pothole could very well have been a pit or a mouth from a giant demon beneath you, but unless you face your fear and look at what it truly is, you'll never understand it.
 
I think it was well done. If Buffy had slain the first I would agree with you, but she didn't, merely fought it to stalemate. I personally would have made The First involved with season 8 (and maybe Joss will) but I like how it was done.
 
In the Q&A session at Harvard, after receiving the Humanist Award or whatever it was, someone asked for a clarification on just what, exactly, the First Evil was supposed to be, he made a statement to the effect that they, meaning, I assume, he and the writers, had never really thought that out fully, and, if he had it to redo, he would have had a different Big Bad to be Buffy's final opponent.
 
I was disspointed with the first in season 7 , i thought the first was weak and i thought it could be potential unstopable . The First Evil claims to be the source and embodiment of all that is evil,So would you think it be unstopable because it is embodiment of all that is evil ,GOD,Old ones,Vampire ECT . The First evil is older than any other evil being and may even be the very first entity ever to have existed.So that just prove that the identity of the first could be much more higher and stronger then any big bad in the Buffy verse ..
Do you agree....



You act as if the First is a sentient being . . . like some demon or mortal. It's not. It is spirit. It is the spirit of evil within us all. And the First is very powerful and it is not.

I am now more than convinced that hardly anyone understood what the First Evil and Season Seven really meant.


In the Q&A session at Harvard, after receiving the Humanist Award or whatever it was, someone asked for a clarification on just what, exactly, the First Evil was supposed to be, he made a statement to the effect that they, meaning, I assume, he and the writers, had never really thought that out fully, and, if he had it to redo, he would have had a different Big Bad to be Buffy's final opponent.


I think that Whedon fully understood what the First Evil represented. I certainly did. I think he had caved in to the pressure of the public's inability or unwillingness to understand what the First meant, when he made the above statement.
 
I seem to remember Joss saying in an interview somewhere that the First Evil was something that was "never really thought out," or something to that affect, so apparently even he never really figured out just exactly what it was.
 
And technically, Buffy did not destroy the First. When Willow says "The First is scrunched" she's not referring to it being defeated entirely. It just needed to retreat and regroup. You could even envision it as the driving force behind Wolfram and Hart's senior partners. It came back again.
 
I suppose I'm a bit torn about The First. On one hand, Buffy and gang are as close to fighting pure evil as they can possibly get (without actually putting their hands on it), which is quite cool. But, and this is a strange comment because it's a positive and a negative, the First can never really be defeated, even if it's plans are foiled.


They were never going to defeat pure evil. The series isn't simply about defeating evil. It was about each character learning something about her or himself. The Scoobies' conflict with the First Evil was to me, a continuation of Season Six, in which Buffy and the others had to learn to grow up. And one of those aspects of growing up was learning to accept everything about themselves - both the good and the bad. As long as they pretended or existed with the illusion that they were above evil or refuse to acknowledge the evil or negativity within themselves, the First Evil would always be in the position to strike and lead them toward a dark road. There is a line from STAR TREK VOYAGER that comes to mind:


"Without the darkness, how would we recognize the light? Do not fear your negative thoughts. They are part of you. They are a part of every living being, even Vulcans. To pretend it does not exist is to create an opportunity for it to escape."
 
I never really ever though of the First as much of a being so much as an incarnation, a personification of evil itself. Considering it is non-corpreal, and doesn't really have any magical/demonic abilities I always thought this made sense, seeing as you can't kill a concept, or an idea. You might be able to "beat" it persay, but it can never really be destroyed.
 
Now that I really think about it, I think The First is probably the biggest Big Bad in the Buffyverse. There are many contradictions to go against this obviously, but if you look at The First's history, you see that it has outlasted and will outlast every other corporeal and non Big Bad to come. It's the devil inside every evil, and the looming manifesto that is inside everything's mind. Every single Big Bad that has come along doesn't give any credit to The First (necessary and what I know of), but in the end it is what ends up being fed. I think the writers of Season Seven could definitely have made it a lot more dangerous, powerful, and evil, since that is what it is - evil.

Anyways, sometimes I wonder though. I honestly cannot remember, but didn't Angel decline an offer from somebody (in the Angel series) to stop the oncoming apocalypse in Sunnydale, that was concurrent with season seven? I think he said the Scooby Gang could hold their own. If he would have said yes, I don't understand how some evil corporation could have shut the boss down. I mean, dusting the Uber-Vamps probably could have worked. Which, is still why I don't understand the lameness that came with the season seven's end "plan". The one that was supposed to make the past six years look like a piece of cake, though Glory was still scarier, but that is just my opinion.

And my opinion is ALWAYS changing, but yeah, I think The First is "higher" than any other Big Bad. It is what gave birth to non-buttered popcorn! : popcorn:
 
Back
Top Bottom