Question The First in Conversations With Dead People

[sisterofmercy]

I was watching the episode yesterday and noticed that despite being non-corporeal, the First was able to destroy the Summers house (assuming both entities were The First, don't think it was ever established or not though).

Just wondering if anyone else picked up on that?

 

[zobothehobo]

It was also able to Touch Spike in Lessons.

 

[Steven123]

I think with The First only mentaly tourmenting Angel in Amends i think a lot of people thought that it was only able to take form but not actually physicaly do anything.

 

[sisterofmercy]

I think with The First only mentaly tourmenting Angel in Amends i think a lot of people thought that it was only able to take form but not actually physicaly do anything.

I'm pretty sure it was firmly established that The First can't touch anything, hence why the test to see if Giles was The First involved the gang touching him and why The First was talking about envying them in Touched.

Obviously I think it would have been more dramatic if it could physically interact with people, seems a bit silly to have the final villain of the show to be the equivalent of a bully with minions to do all of the work. It's just odd that they'd make sure to include a rule and then completely forget about it within the same season.

 

[Steven123]

Obviously I think it would have been more dramatic if it could physically interact with people, seems a bit silly to have the final villain of the show to be the equivalent of a bully with minions to do all of the work. It's just odd that they'd make sure to include a rule and then completely forget about it within the same season.

To make it sound ironic lol they probably thought "to hell with it" they probably realised that there had to be something involved that contradicted the "no touching", and then they probably could have gave what ever reason.

 

[sjscottt80]

Actually a Touch?

It was also able to Touch Spike in Lessons.

Perhaps The First didn't actually touch Spike -- maybe it was something like a ghost holding its hand seemingly "against" an object but not actually touching it? If you know what I mean... like if the ghost would push any further it would go "through" it?

 

[dexeded]

The Spike thing was a fluke from the writers. You could explain that it was a product of Spike's already warped mind, I suppose.

As for "Conversations with Dead People", it wasn't the First that directly did the damage to the house. It probably had minions to do the dirty work, like the creature on top of 'Joyce's body'.

 

[white avenger]

As for "Conversations with Dead People", it wasn't the First that directly did the damage to the house. It probably had minions to do the dirty work, like the creature on top of 'Joyce's body'.

I think that it was established at the time of the original airing that the being that demolished the Summers house and appeared as Joyce was something other than the First Evil. (The First Good, maybe?) and that it wasn't bound by the First Evil's limitations. It stands to reason that there would be some sort of opposing force that would be as powerful as the First Evil.

Of course, if that were a fact, why didn't it try in some way to help Buffy and her friends? Then again, maybe the short lived Guardian was it's agent, the equivalent of Caleb, and she was actually supposed to...

Nah, more likely, the writers just screwed up and there wasn't time to correct their mistake.

 

[dexeded]

I think that it was established at the time of the original airing that the being that demolished the Summers house and appeared as Joyce was something other than the First Evil. (The First Good, maybe?) and that it wasn't bound by the First Evil's limitations. It stands to reason that there would be some sort of opposing force that would be as powerful as the First Evil.

Funny, that's how I always thought the First Evil would have been defeated--by some opposing force, like the 'First something' (Slayer? Good? Something along those lines).

Anyway, I don't know about the damage to the house, but I'm pretty sure Joyce was the First Evil. I remember reading somewhere that the original script had Dawn saying something like 'They said I couldn't bring you back', and then Joyce replying 'Maybe I'm the First'. But yeah, it makes sense that something else destroyed the house if Joyce was the First Evil, to warn Dawn and chase the First Evil out.