The First: Is it a solid form?
- Thread starter Buffylover
- Start date
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Again, Buffy brought fight to First, first not ready.
About the vamps being further down in the hole, clearly the first didn't see this comeing, but it must have told the vamps to be near the hole when it was opening it, but there was no need for them to be there when buffy and co were opening it, they wern't expecting it.
About the vamps being further down in the hole, clearly the first didn't see this comeing, but it must have told the vamps to be near the hole when it was opening it, but there was no need for them to be there when buffy and co were opening it, they wern't expecting it.
BlasterBoy606
Big Damn Hero
What do you mean close it tight?
Do you mean kill them all?
Also, where did the amulet come from? What was it? Why did it blow up? Answers, people!
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
I don't know now, we know there is at least 1 other hellmouth, but nothing sugests they are connected. But it does seem clear that the Biggest one was in SunnyD, so I think it makes sense for the bulk of the army to be destroyed.
BlasterBoy606
Big Damn Hero
Yes, but there were more than just UberVamps in the hellmouth, but none were shown ::huh1:
Yes, one in Cleveland. But, what about all the Bringers around the world? What about hundreds of other people that would follow in Caleb's footsteps. Good army, I would say.
Yes, one in Cleveland. But, what about all the Bringers around the world? What about hundreds of other people that would follow in Caleb's footsteps. Good army, I would say.
The Sunnydale Hellmouth is no more, Buffy closed it for good.
W&H but I dunno where they got it
Buffylover
Townie
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 26
ok im just wondering if when it takes a form of somebody like Cassie, Buffy, or Joyce if it was solid form.
BlasterBoy606
Big Damn Hero
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
The only other monster we have seen in the hellmouth was the many headed one, and for all we know it was killed in the Zeppo?
The bringers have been shown to be no problem at all, so they aren't really a threat.
Caleb was one of a kind, The first says he's the only human it could enter, so while it may have other followers, they can't really be a threat, their human.
So it would seem the UberVamps were the main part of it's army, maybe it didn't manage to convince the other demons that it should be ruler.
Isn't the story of the hellmouth that the pure demons were pushed into the hellmouth and died out, and stronger vamps were pushed into the hellmouth the last one feeding on a human and creating vamps as we know them? Well if there allot of stronger demons down in the hellmouth, why would they listen to the first? So he had his Ubervamp army which it could have used to kill the other demons that opposed it?
Blondie Bear
Zydrate Addict
Uh-oh, I just spotted a plothole.
If the First was able to wage its war because Buffy upset the balance by coming back to life after the Slayer power had well and truly passed on, how badly has she upset the balance by making EVERY Potential a Slayer instead of just having one? : erm :
If the First was able to wage its war because Buffy upset the balance by coming back to life after the Slayer power had well and truly passed on, how badly has she upset the balance by making EVERY Potential a Slayer instead of just having one? : erm :
TabulaRasa
Buffy Girl
Was not solid form even when taking over someones dead body..but even Cassie touched the desk and sat down. Some mistakes but nothing major. You would think it would fall thru the chair. But then again, maybe it was just floating on top of the chair.
🙂
🙂
palabravampiress
Bidet of Evil
I'm still stuck on the itty bitty door thing.
I mean, it takes like 26 pints of blood to open the thing. And then one uber vamp gets to come out. It's like the world's slowest army ever, all trapped in a bottleneck like that. So my question is... who put that gateway there and why?
Theory #1: Bottlenecks are useful for thinning an enemy's numbers. So let's say someone from the outside wanted to thin the numbers of the enemy attacking from the inside. He or she effectively closes the hellmouth but for one tiny door with a complicated lock (question: why couldn't Dawn open the door, she being a key and all?). Now, only a small, manageable number of beasties can get out. That's an effective bottleneck. But wait! Why not close it completely? Who would want a tightly controlled, extremely limited traffic of persons and things in and out of the hellmouth? I'm confused.
Theory #2: So I come to theory number two. Someone inside the hellmouth built the door to keep humans and other outsiders out. This IS an effective use of the bottleneck strategy. Even if an entire army is trying to storm the hellmouth, only a few can actually enter at a time. That thins the army's numbers enough so that the uber vamps have the advantage. Also, the blood lock ensures that anyone who can open it -- anyone who can get in -- is pretty much certainly either evil or desperate enough to do evil. Also, there's an entire army stationed right under the blood locked bottleneck. Offensive armies don't sit at a bottleneck and wait. They charge. Defensive armies sit and wait. The most logical conclusion is that the entire army was stationed there in order to defend something very, very precious.
I buy theory #2. The First's army was definitely in defensive mode.
I mean, it takes like 26 pints of blood to open the thing. And then one uber vamp gets to come out. It's like the world's slowest army ever, all trapped in a bottleneck like that. So my question is... who put that gateway there and why?
Theory #1: Bottlenecks are useful for thinning an enemy's numbers. So let's say someone from the outside wanted to thin the numbers of the enemy attacking from the inside. He or she effectively closes the hellmouth but for one tiny door with a complicated lock (question: why couldn't Dawn open the door, she being a key and all?). Now, only a small, manageable number of beasties can get out. That's an effective bottleneck. But wait! Why not close it completely? Who would want a tightly controlled, extremely limited traffic of persons and things in and out of the hellmouth? I'm confused.
Theory #2: So I come to theory number two. Someone inside the hellmouth built the door to keep humans and other outsiders out. This IS an effective use of the bottleneck strategy. Even if an entire army is trying to storm the hellmouth, only a few can actually enter at a time. That thins the army's numbers enough so that the uber vamps have the advantage. Also, the blood lock ensures that anyone who can open it -- anyone who can get in -- is pretty much certainly either evil or desperate enough to do evil. Also, there's an entire army stationed right under the blood locked bottleneck. Offensive armies don't sit at a bottleneck and wait. They charge. Defensive armies sit and wait. The most logical conclusion is that the entire army was stationed there in order to defend something very, very precious.
I buy theory #2. The First's army was definitely in defensive mode.
A
Allycat
Guest
To quote General Voll from The Long Way Home, Part IV: "You've upset the balance, girl."
Blondie Bear
Zydrate Addict
Kemy
Annoyed Enby
The First exists on another plane altogether, its possible the visual representation is not actually "there" but a localised energy effect projected into the minds of those near it making them "see and hear" something there.
Which explains why no electronic device can record it and why only the people it chooses to become visible to see it. As for it appearing as the dead, possibly the First still needs a "pattern" to base its visualisation on, not being able to touch a living person means the only patterns it can steal/use are those that have passed on and it can therefore in some way touch.
The First as we see it is just a tiny intersection of its true form touching our plane of existence, the full form or extent of the First could be inconceivably massive or powerful.
Caleb become like a lightening rod for the energy it used to appear in our reality, enfusing him with that power, maybe like the Potentials only a very small number of Humans possess the ability for this.
And as it stated itself, it has all of eternity to act, not just our universe but all of them. What does it matter to the First the life span of one Human being or a 50,000 year line of Humans, its been around like forever. It could go on vacation and torment a dozen realities for centuries and come back to Earth later. 😛
Although I really wish it had appeared to Buffy and the gang at the end, in the form of the Mayor and made some remark about them making such a mess, saying it would be back, and ending there. Oh well.
Which explains why no electronic device can record it and why only the people it chooses to become visible to see it. As for it appearing as the dead, possibly the First still needs a "pattern" to base its visualisation on, not being able to touch a living person means the only patterns it can steal/use are those that have passed on and it can therefore in some way touch.
The First as we see it is just a tiny intersection of its true form touching our plane of existence, the full form or extent of the First could be inconceivably massive or powerful.
Caleb become like a lightening rod for the energy it used to appear in our reality, enfusing him with that power, maybe like the Potentials only a very small number of Humans possess the ability for this.
And as it stated itself, it has all of eternity to act, not just our universe but all of them. What does it matter to the First the life span of one Human being or a 50,000 year line of Humans, its been around like forever. It could go on vacation and torment a dozen realities for centuries and come back to Earth later. 😛
Although I really wish it had appeared to Buffy and the gang at the end, in the form of the Mayor and made some remark about them making such a mess, saying it would be back, and ending there. Oh well.
B
Blondie Bear
Would have been nifty, but I think they wanted to end on an UP note. :)