The First on Angel?

R

rowie4life

Townie
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
Messages
4
Age
43
Location
Bedworth, England
On Angel season 4 episode 17 (inside out) when Darla's "ghost" talks to Conner to try and stop him killing that girl (so that Cordy could give birth to Jasmine)
Well I think that Darla's "ghost" was actually the First

Cassie/The First from Conversations with Dead People
the whole good-versus-evil, balancing the scales thing"”I'm over it.
Click to expand...

Well at about the same time Jasmine's efforts of world peace happened the Hellmouth was causing havoc in Sunnydale that's the balance (L.A. = Happy Happy and Sunnydale = Apocalypse.) So the First tried to tip the scales by making world peace not happen by looking like Darla, but it didn't work.

What do you peeps think.

Rowie.
 
I'm not sure...maybe that's true. But I don't really see why the First would really want to defeat Jasmine, because that would actually be helping keep the balance between good and evil (just because she offered world peace doesn't mean she wasn't evil.)
 
i really don't think thats what Jos Planed it for Angel, i think he only ment it for Buffy. or i could be wrong
 
I just saw this episode the other day, and by the way, the scene where Conner kills that girl is the saddest thing I've ever seen on TV. While that theory makes sense, I just really want to believe that was Darla, just like I really want to believe that Joyce's ghost on Buffy S7 was legit. Still, I think that the First Evil should have been an Angel Big Bad anyway, after the Buffy ep "Amends" centered on him.
 
It was real easy to see a "The First" connection in Season 4, if you wanted to.

Remember when Lilah appeared to Wesley as he was decapitating her corpse.

Or how about the butch prisoner that tried to stab Faith with a bringer knife?

Then there was the similarity between Spike's tatoo's when he was being bled over the seal, and Lindsey's tatoo's that hid him from the Senior Partners.

I always wondered why Cordelia spoke in a male voice to Angelus, if she was really Jasmine.

Hey, what if they planned to bring The First into Season 6. It would explain why Lorne had to kill Lindsey, if he heard Lindsey sing and knew he was an agent of The First.

Also, you know how everyone wants to see Buffy and the potentials come swinging down from the rooftops to save the fearsome four from the mess we left them in at the conclusion of Not Fade Away. Well Joss never does what you would expect. The potentials won't be coming. What about Bringers though. No-one would ever expect that, and there's been foreshadowing for the possibility if you think about it.

Another thing to consider is the fact the SPs have thwarted the plans of The First in the past when they sent the amulet to Sunnydale. The First can't have liked that.
 
Remember when Lilah appeared to Wesley as he was decapitating her corpse.
Click to expand...

I never saw this ep. Are you sure it wasn't the real Lilah, like in "Home" when she explained that her contract with Wolfram and Hart lasted even after death?
 
Fat Elvis 007 said:
I never saw this ep. Are you sure it wasn't the real Lilah, like in "Home" when she explained that her contract with Wolfram and Hart lasted even after death?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's from the episode Salvage. Here's an excerpt to jog your memory:

LILAH
Me? (laughs) Lover, I'm not even here. I'm just a figment in your devilishly handsome head. So, clearly, it's what you thought. For all your supposed darkness, edge of the razor mystique, (whispers in his ear) there was always a small part of you that thought you could pull me back from the brink of my evil, evil ways. Help me find redemption.

WESLEY
Redemption?

LILAH
(stands behind him with her hands on his shoulders) Angel's influence, I suppose. The whole not giving up on someone, no matter how far he"”or she"”has fallen. Oh, well. Too late for me. (Wes stands) Let's just get it over with. That body's not gonna dismember itself, you know.

WESLEY
(lifts the battle-axe) I'm sorry, Lilah.

LILAH
Oh, Wes, we don't have that word in our vocabulary. Not people like you and"”

Wesley swings the axe. When he pulls it back, it's got blood on its edge. He cries.
Click to expand...
 
Definitely not the real Lilah, but why would the First do this? Wesley didn't even figure into his plan. So, I'm thinking it was just Wesley hullucinating.
 
Fat Elvis 007 said:
Definitely not the real Lilah, but why would the First do this? Wesley didn't even figure into his plan. So, I'm thinking it was just Wesley hullucinating.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Also if the SPs reanimate Lilah's body and they own her soul by contract, is she dead? Can The First take her form?

On the other hand I can see what The First could be up to if you accept the arguement that the SPs and The First are enemies.

The First plays head-games. He puts the idea in Wesley's head Lilah was capable of redemption, knowing Wesley will soon find out the SPs' deal with Lilah makes redemption impossible. This solidifies Wesley as an enemy of the SPs. The First could be thinking the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
 
Well, technically she did die, so the First should be able to impersonate her just like he does Buffy.

I just don't think Wesley was important enough to the First's plan. He(it?) would think of it as a waste of time.
 
I don't know... You think maybe he's as important as that potential in the funny T shirt, The First spent all night talking into committing suicide? I'm thinking maybe Wesley is, because I remember his name.
 
The First didn't tempt Chloe because he thought she was a threat, he did it to send a message to Buffy. I don't see how taunting Wesley would be significant to him. Wesley was already against the Senior Partners, he didn't need Lilah's death to convince him.
 
Just to play Devil's advocate, cause it's fun, remember when Skip was going through the list of the Fang Gangs' history to show them how seemingly random unconnected events could be manipulated to work towards a planned consequence?

The First could have been doing something like that.

When Wes goes to Wolfram & Hart one of the first thing he tries to do is destroy Lilah's contract.

Would Wes have gone over to Wolfram & Hart if he hadn't thought he could somehow help Lilah? I don't know.

It's possible the First knew.

If the Fang Gang hadn't gone to W&H, they would never have brought down the Circle of the Blackthorn. Could they have done it without Wes. Remember Connor wouldn't have got his memory back without Wes. He wouldn't have gone to help his father fight Hamilton.

If Wes hadn't stabbed Gunn it might not have given Gunn the final pain of conscience that forced him to rejoin the fight.

Then there's Illyria. What might have happened there without Wes.

It's possible to make the point, all this happened, because in the beginning Wes wanted to help Lilah.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying The First was involved, I'm just saying if The First was involved it would be possible to make it all make a weird kind of sense.
 
It's starting to make sense....I'll reserve judgement on this until I see the episode for myself.

So, nerd4hire, do you think it was the real Darla, the First, or something else?
 
I have no idea. I just fall for all these strange postulations people offer and try to make them make sense, because it's fun, plus every once in a while one of them turns out to be true, and then I can say, "Ah ha. I knew it all along".

Some day I'll have to tell you the one about how The First and Jasmine could have been in cahoots.
 
Hey, what if they planned to bring The First into Season 6. It would explain why Lorne had to kill Lindsey, if he heard Lindsey sing and knew he was an agent of The First.
Click to expand...

Lorne killed Lindsey, becuase Angel told him too, and thats why Lorne left, and didn't help then fight the evil

and the last time Lorne heard was when Lindsey got him hand back and Left town, and then Lornes bar was blown up.
 
Glenn Quinn said:
Lorne killed Lindsey, because Angel told him to
Click to expand...

True, but why? They never say, and they never show the exact point at which Angel communicates this to Lorne. Personally, I got the impression, it was an understanding Lorne and Angel had come to before Angel paired Lorne with Lindsey. This could very well be how Lorne instinctively knows what Angel is really asking him to do (Kill Lindsey).

If you're theorizing The First behind the scenes, as the poster of this thread was, you could also theorize an explanation where both Angel and Lorne know about The First and it's connection with Lindsey.



and the last time Lorne heard was when Lindsey got him hand back and Left town, and then Lornes bar was blown up.
Click to expand...

We don't know that. We only know that's the last time we saw Lorne read Lindsey. Lindsey was under Angel's custody. Angel wanted information from him. It's not outrageous to imagine Angel could have had Lorne read Lindsey during this time.

Again we're just talking about somebody's theory. He's postulating what if the First was in the background. It's OK to postulate further background possibilities in that framework.
 
a meesage to every one to see

im diana and im a angel fan and i like it alot and i love all the supposse and i dont remember if the frist was on angel orr not and i was wondering if the first was on agel or not can you let me know plz thank you very much
 
First off, I do believe that it was who appeared to Conner. Because i just think it was lol.

I do think it would make sence and more awsome if the First was one of Angel's big bads. Considering the first did try and make Angel commit suicide. So if there was a Season 6, the first so shoudl have been the big bad.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom