The First or Joyce?

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Hostile_17

My hair is like fire!!
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In Conversations with Dead People, Joyce visits Dawn to warn her that Buffy won't choose her when it gets bad. Willow assumes it's the first. But I've never really understood for sure if it was the first or if it was actually Joyce?
 
Jane Espenson (co-writer of episode) interview:

AICN: You wrote the Dawn scenes in CONVERSATIONS WITH DEAD PEOPLE. Now that BUFFY is no more, some fans wonder what Joyce was talking about when she said, "Buffy won't choose you." But surely that was just The First messing with Dawnie's head, yes?

JANE: Yes indeed.
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http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=15587

Joss Whedon (uncredited co-writer of ep, creator of series and showrunner) interview:

IIGNFF: What was the purpose of Joyce's statement to her?

WHEDON: To rattle her. To make her wonder, and then, you know, it was just this sort of said thing. The First trying to set everybody against each other, was all, and I guess against themselves.
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http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/425/425492p9.html
 
A
Anchovy
See, see, this is why you get the Giles Award!
Yeah.... I still don't believe it was really The First. I mean, sure it was The First trying to scare Dawn and stuff, make her not completely trust Buffy. But, I still don't believe "Joyce" was really The First. I don't what I think she was, it just doesn't make any sense to me really.
 
eponinethen said:
Yeah.... I still don't believe it was really The First. I mean, sure it was The First trying to scare Dawn and stuff, make her not completely trust Buffy. But, I still don't believe "Joyce" was really The First. I don't what I think she was, it just doesn't make any sense to me really.
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I agree with you I mean, when the first came to other people including Willow it just appeared, it didnt come with a deom (or whatever it was) in tow and it didnt glow, I would like to believe that it was intended to be really Joyce but they didnt have room for the storyline so they just left it and decided to say it was the first. Thats what I think at least.
 
Yeah I'm convinced that the writers had a complete different story line in mind when they wrote that episode.

I was talking to one of my friends about this, and she said she always thought that the Summers house had like a shield protecting it from the first, and when the first tried coming in as Joyce, the 'evil demon' thing was trying to keep it out of the house. So Dawn didn't do any favors getting rid of the demon. She pretty much opened the house of desaster.
 
It was The First messing with Dawn's head and that's why she betrayed Buffy after the mutiny of the potentials
 
i really like hostile_17's theory, about a protective shield thingie.
i DO think that joyce was the first. joyce would neverhave said that to her daughter if it was really her!
 
This is really tough but I rekon it was the first, things "Joyce" said were really hurtful to Dawn, maybe it was a bit of both, Joyce and the First??
 
Hostile_17 said:
In Conversations with Dead People, Joyce visits Dawn to warn her that Buffy won't choose her when it gets bad. Willow assumes it's the first. But I've never really understood for sure if it was the first or if it was actually Joyce?
Click to expand...

I always thought it was Joyce coming to warn Dawn about the evil, because whilst Dawn is in the house u see Joyce lying on the couch and something on top of her (lol sounds so wrong) hurting her trying to prevent her from reaching Dawn. I'm also confused when Joyce says Buffy won't chose Dawn maybe it has something to do with when Buffy is going to go into battle with the potentials and gets Xander to take Dawn away. Maybe that's what she meant Buffy won't chose Dawn for the battle. Just a thought..
 
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