The First Slayer

[CharmedSlayer85]

I always wondered how exactly did the power of the slayer get weaker as time progressed. Because if you look at the Enjoining Spell they did in Episode 21 Primeval they called on the power of the First Slayer which made Buffy VERY super, with magick and extra extra strength, speed, etc, so I'm wondering how exactly did that power lessen over the centuries. I mean since all the slayers are suppose to receive the same power why isn't say Buffy or even the slayer before her or before that the same as The First. Even if you read Tales of the Slayer and go all the way back to Ancient Greece, which is much more closer to the First Slayer then say Faith even she didn't possess that type of power.

 

[Lyri]

i think it has more to do with evolution than anything mystical.
the power of the Slayer just evolved over time to what was needed to be able to fight back. i'm sure that whoever created the Slayer never wanted their champion to be stronger than they were, 'cause then there would be the possiblity of them getting killed by their own hero, and said hero taking over the world.
maybe at one point there was a Slayer who felt she was better than everyone and decided that she should rule the world or something, and the PTB's or whoever, decided that from that point on, Slayers were going to be a little less powerful.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Did the enjoining spell not put the strenght of every slayer since the first slayer in Buffy. It was just the power of the First power it was the power of all the slayers?

"The power of the Slayer and all who yield it.
Last to ancient first, we invoke thee.

This bit, is that not what that meant?

 

[Lyri]

well, yeah, that would make sense, BEG. and since the Primative was the source of that power, meaning the first one to hold it, she got pissed.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Did the enjoining spell not put the strenght of every slayer since the first slayer in Buffy. It was just the power of the First power it was the power of all the slayers?



This bit, is that not what that meant?

Yeah but everytime they mention the spell they'll say the spell that called upon the First Slayer. But I don't really think it has anything to do with the Powers That Be, since the Powers weren't the one that gave the slayer her power it was powerful men in an African Tribe. And the reason they chose a woman because they believed a woman can be controlled better than if they gave that power to a man, because of feelings of women being inferior to men and such.

 

[Lyri]

uh, i think you just answered your own question there.

And the reason they chose a woman because they believed a woman can be controlled better than if they gave that power to a man, because of feelings of women being inferior to men and such.

if they wanted to contro the Slayer better, then maybe they found away to, i don't know, dilute the power as it was passed on, making the succeeding Slayers more controlable than The First. we say that the Primative was a pretty wild girl. she never had a Watcher, possibly because the Shadow Men didn't have the power to reign her in. so they found a way to make the Slayer less powerful, and thus they could control her better.

 

[alexa]

Wow this thread has confused me. It's so interesting to hear your point of view CS85, I just assumed the power was from all the previous slayers combined, or the power was the pure raw power of the demon that the power came from. But I get confused with the creation of the first slayer because of the Guardian that appeared to Buffy in End of Days. Hmm ok I've just read the scene with the Guardian and she seems to only be part of a group of powerful women (into magic I'd think) that wanted to help guide and protect the slayers, thus creating the scythe. I've also got 'Tales of the Slayers' but I don't remember Ancient Greece... I remember it was cool the way the blonde medieval slayer staked and beheaded a vampire so fast he didn't have a chance to dust. I also noticed that they only made *one* girl the slayer because they feared they could not control more. I think it's justified that Buffy shared her power with the potentials because it should be their choice on what to do with their power.

 

[nerd4hire]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time remembering this ancient Greek slayer too. I think CS85 might be talking about the book, which isn't canon, rather than the graphic novel which may be.

There are a bunch of assumptions here I'm wondering about. Why are we accepting the idea The First Slayer was more powerful than Buffy as fact? I never got that impression.

Why are we assuming the merge was with the first slayer. Xander describes the merge to the watchers in Checkpoint this way...

XANDER: Last year, uh, Willow, Giles and me combined our essences with Buffy, which isn't as weird as it sounds. (laughs nervously) We merged, and I was the heart part of a super-Buffy. Again, let me stress the not-as-weird thing.

I don't remember anything in Primeval which talks of an actual merge with the first slayer. The closest thing I can remember might be this...

Willow: We enjoin that we may inhabit the vessel. The hand, daughter of Sineya, first of the Ones.

Even if we assume "daughter of Sineya, first of the ones" is the first slayer Willow's spell is obscure as to what exactly it's doing. The hand is meant to represent Buffy. It goes Willow - spirit, Xander - heart, Giles - mind, and Buffy - hand. What I would get from that line is the three scoobs are merging with the power of slayer line from the first slayer to Buffy. I'm not sure why my interpretation is inferior to one that says they merged with the first slayer alone.

In fact this is what Giles says in Restless...

GILES: Somehow our joining with ... Buffy and ... invoking the essence of the Slayer's power was an affront to the source of that power.

The "essence of the slayer's power" is not the first slayer, nor is she the "source of that power".

 

[hyperballadbrad]

I always wondered how exactly did the power of the slayer get weaker as time progressed. Because if you look at the Enjoining Spell they did in Episode 21 Primeval they called on the power of the First Slayer which made Buffy VERY super, with magick and extra extra strength, speed, etc, so I'm wondering how exactly did that power lessen over the centuries. I mean since all the slayers are suppose to receive the same power why isn't say Buffy or even the slayer before her or before that the same as The First. Even if you read Tales of the Slayer and go all the way back to Ancient Greece, which is much more closer to the First Slayer then say Faith even she didn't possess that type of power.

The power was enhanced through magic etc rather than emulated is my thinking.

It's the essence of the Slayer.... I don't think the power has lessened over the centuries... but when put into the human body that power is lessened... because we're human!

It's not like the First Slayer could stop bullets flying or the crazy stuff Buffy did when fighting Adam

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Wow this thread has confused me. It's so interesting to hear your point of view CS85, I just assumed the power was from all the previous slayers combined, or the power was the pure raw power of the demon that the power came from. But I get confused with the creation of the first slayer because of the Guardian that appeared to Buffy in End of Days. Hmm ok I've just read the scene with the Guardian and she seems to only be part of a group of powerful women (into magic I'd think) that wanted to help guide and protect the slayers, thus creating the scythe. I've also got 'Tales of the Slayers' but I don't remember Ancient Greece... I remember it was cool the way the blonde medieval slayer staked and beheaded a vampire so fast he didn't have a chance to dust. I also noticed that they only made *one* girl the slayer because they feared they could not control more. I think it's justified that Buffy shared her power with the potentials because it should be their choice on what to do with their power.

I'm referring to the Tales of the Slayer book not the comic

 

[nerd4hire]

The book is not generally accepted as canon. It's more like commercial fanfic. Why was there some kind of Greek super-slayer in that one? Could she fly, or shoot rays out her eyeballs, or something?

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time remembering this ancient Greek slayer too. I think CS85 might be talking about the book, which isn't canon, rather than the graphic novel which may be.

There are a bunch of assumptions here I'm wondering about. Why are we accepting the idea The First Slayer was more powerful than Buffy as fact? I never got that impression.

Why are we assuming the merge was with the first slayer. Xander describes the merge to the watchers in Checkpoint this way...



I don't remember anything in Primeval which talks of an actual merge with the first slayer. The closest thing I can remember might be this...



Even if we assume "daughter of Sineya, first of the ones" is the first slayer Willow's spell is obscure as to what exactly it's doing. The hand is meant to represent Buffy. It goes Willow - spirit, Xander - heart, Giles - mind, and Buffy - hand. What I would get from that line is the three scoobs are merging with the power of slayer line from the first slayer to Buffy. I'm not sure why my interpretation is inferior to one that says they merged with the first slayer alone.

In fact this is what Giles says in Restless...



The "essence of the slayer's power" is not the first slayer, nor is she the "source of that power".

The First Slayer would have to be the source of the power because she was the one trying to kill them in their dreams. Also if you remember Season Five when Buffy said: "Ever since we did that spell where we called on the first slayer ... I've been going out a lot"
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The book is not generally accepted as canon. It's more like commercial fanfic. Why was there some kind of Greek super-slayer in that one? Could she fly, or shoot rays out her eyeballs, or something?

Well no I was saying that the Ancient Greek slayer from the book didn't have any super super slayer powers and she was the closest to the First Slayer being that it happened a long while ago. That's what I was saying

 

[nerd4hire]

The First Slayer would have to be the source of the power because she was the one trying to kill them in their dreams.

And the cheese man was trying was trying to give her cheese. Was he also real?

Also if you remember Season Five when Buffy said: "Ever since we did that spell where we called on the first slayer ... I've been going out a lot"

Yes, she did say that in Buffy versus Dracula, but there's a difference between Buffy interpreting from her Restless dream the spell called on the first slayer, and assuming Buffy merged specifically with the first slayer's specific, supposed, superior power. There are other ways to interpret that. Assuming there can only be one is presumptuous.

Giles specifically said they "invoked the essence of the Slayer's power" and that "was an affront to the source of that power."

If you look at it from that perspective it's entirely reasonable to see the First Slayer in the Restless dreams as more a dream symbol of "the essence of the Slayer's power" and "the source of that power."

Understand I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying there's more than one possible interpretation. Assuming there can only be one possible interpretation though, that's wrong. Not to worry, the Buffy contributor to Wikipedia did it too. They're also wrong (which isn't an unusual event, but it's fun to point it out when you notice it).

 

[Lyri]

so, the essence of the slayer power would be the demon dust they shoved into the first slayer? i'm getting that. but the primative was the first girl to hold that power, so it would make sense that it would be her who tried to seek revenge or whatever. i'm not saying that it really was her, i'm just pointing something out.
the 'super slayer' y'all are talking about, i'm guessing is Thessily. the only reason she's considered 'super' is because she was supposedly the Slayer until she was 29, the longest lasting Slayer ever, and she ran a couple hundred miles in a few days, even though she'd be poisoned by something, which she eventually died of.
but, like N4H said, the Tales of the Slayers novels are not considered canon.

 

[SpikedBuffy]

I don't know if this was n4h's point...as I'm tired and not past six year old logic yet... 🙂

But, really, was Buffy's strength/power in "Primeval" only because of joining with the essesence of the First Slayer? She was also joined with Xander, Giles and Willow, thus creating a like a super-being. That probably gave her a super extra boost of power.

 

[alexa]

I don't know if this was n4h's point...as I'm tired and not past six year old logic yet... 🙂

But, really, was Buffy's strength/power in "Primeval" only because of joining with the essesence of the First Slayer? She was also joined with Xander, Giles and Willow, thus creating a like a super-being. That probably gave her a super extra boost of power.

Yeah good point for someone with 6 year old logic 😉 Maybe the uber slayer not only came from invoking the slayer line, but also from the force of 3 other people working together.

 

[nerd4hire]

Other interpretations are possible, of course, but if we look at the scene, I'll show you mine.

Adam lowers his gunarm as he gazes at her. Close up of Buffy. We see
her pupils have shrank to tiny pinpoints, her irises orange surrounded
by yellow. Her expression is very calm.

BUFFY: (Sumerian) Sha me-en-den. Gesh-toog me-en-den. Zee me-en-den.
Oo-khush-ta me-ool-lee-a ba-ab-tum-mu-de-en.

ADAM: Interesting.

Apparently the Sumerian translates into...

We are heart. We are mind.
We are spirit.
From the raging storm,
we bring the power of the Primeval One.

OK so what is the "power of the Primeval One"?

Adam raises his gunarm and starts firing. The hundreds of rounds hit
an invisible barrier about a foot in front of Buffy and the air
ripples like raindrops on water.

BUFFY: (Sumerian) Im-a-sheng-ab.

This I am told translates into "Boil the air".

So could the First Slayer "boil the air". If she could then CS85, and the Wikipedia girl are correct. The First Slayer's personal power is far superior to Buffy's. If she couldn't though, we are talking about something different than The First Slayer's "personal" power. We are talking about what Giles mentions - "the essence of the slayer's power". It is a power so great it requires 3 humans, and one slayer to manage it's full release for a brief spurt.

When Giles says the use of such power was an "affront to the source of that power", he is not talking about The First Slayer. Without knowing it at the time he is talking about the "heart of the demon" we heard spoken of in Get it Done. The symbol of The First Slayer which comes to Buffy and the Scoobs in their "Restless" dream is a message from that source.

 

[alexa]

Nicely put n4h. What Giles says "affront to the source of that power" has always confused me. I assuming he means by invoking this pure power, is an insult to the source of that power (whatever the true source is), because it was being used for a brief period? I'm not sure I completely understand the insult, or if it's just the price of such a huge spell, or if it is the spirit of the first slayer... actually I think Buffy says 'you're not her'. Havent watched that in a while. I do remember the first slayer-guide-representational-wanting-to-kill-scoobies-person fought with Buffy and they were pretty even matched.