The First touching tables, sitting down etc.

[Blaze]

What do you think is the rule regarding what the first can and cannot touch, and to what extent is the First immaterial.

We're clearly shown on a few occasion that the first can sit down, or touch objects like table, and obviously The First doesn't just go through the floor, so what exactly are the limits here? Even in Conversation with Dead People, the First as Cassie is pretty much shown to touch books, although the only explanations is that the touching was faked, and "her" hand would just brush over the objects.

 

[white avenger]

It's pretty much the same thing as the way that Spike was able to walk around on the floor, sit on furniture, and ride in Angel's car. Technically, an incorporeal being, unable to touch or move anything, wouldn't be restricted to walking on floors or sitting down, because both actions require the body's reaction to a solid surface. Having no substance, Spike or the First Evil would either sink into the floor or float up into and through the ceiling. In Spike's case, just like Patrick Swayze in "Ghost," he eventually learned to move things by basically pure mental control. He had to believe strongly enough that he could touch something in order to actually touch it. By the same note, though on a subconscious level, Spike or the First Evil is able to walk on floors and sit on chairs simply because they believe that they can. Likewise, because they believe that they can walk through walls, they can do so.

Luckily for everyone concerned, the First Evil was never able to believe strongly enough that it can touch things, otherwise it wouldn't have needed Caleb as much.

 

[Blaze]

It's pretty much the same thing as the way that Spike was able to walk around on the floor, sit on furniture, and ride in Angel's car. Technically, an incorporeal being, unable to touch or move anything, wouldn't be restricted to walking on floors or sitting down, because both actions require the body's reaction to a solid surface. Having no substance, Spike or the First Evil would either sink into the floor or float up into and through the ceiling. In Spike's case, just like Patrick Swayze in "Ghost," he eventually learned to move things by basically pure mental control. He had to believe strongly enough that he could touch something in order to actually touch it. By the same note, though on a subconscious level, Spike or the First Evil is able to walk on floors and sit on chairs simply because they believe that they can. Likewise, because they believe that they can walk through walls, they can do so.

Luckily for everyone concerned, the First Evil was never able to believe strongly enough that it can touch things, otherwise it wouldn't have needed Caleb as much.

This all makes sense, and it's a great explanation! But what I'm most baffled about is the subtle touching of things, like the books in the library.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

A non-corporeal being like the First should be able to assume any position in space... even ones that would be impossible without support for a real person. It could mimic sitting down just by putting its "body" in a sitting position atop a chair.

Reminds me of a scene in the movie "Scrooge" where Scrooge asks Marley's Ghost (Alec Guinness) if he can sit down, and he responds "Of course I can sit down," pulls up a chair... and sits down on the air next to it.

 

[Yosso]

If the First was truly incorporeal and literally went through every solid object it would simply continue falling and falling and falling with gravity being the primary determiner of its existence, so I understand that for the point of the story there does need to be some sort of limit.

My theory is that the First has some sort of levitation abilities as well, being able to oppose gravity or simply being immune to it, so it looks like he is touching the floor when really it is just a subtle sort of levitation. As for touching books, it's not real touching, he can't physically pick up a book and flick through it. It merely appears as though he's touching the surface of it.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

The First is what is known as a non-corporeal entity, a bit like a soul.
When Angelus had a soul put in him the body being corporeal continued to be corporeal.
When the First entered the body of a dead person, the body of the dead person was the corporeal unit, and being corporeal it could touch things. Like a book or to sit on a chair. If the First decided to leave a body it would become non-coporeal and do things like swallow itself.

Yosso,
I don't understand what you mean by gravity being the primary determiner for the First existence.
Being aware that it is non corporeal the First simply is, it has no restrictions, it is not governed by anything, evil (First) it is an emotion.

About that Swayze thing in Ghost, moving the object, having to put all of one's concentration to be able to move an item. There is another view, to remove all of ones concentration, that way the item can be moved without thinking about it, in much the same way if you wanted to start writing a letter you pick up a pen, it isn't very often you need to concentrate to pick up the pen.
A strangely made film was that, when the coin moved through the air, they showed Swayze with it on his finger, but moving the can (in the underground railway station) was moved by thought projection and not actually kicking (having physical contact, touching) it.

 

[Taake]

lol, I'm having fun now just imagining seeing the First sitting down (as Buffy) and falling through chairs and walls etc... maybe that would have made season 7 better for me 😉

 

[AndrewCrossett]

An incorporeal being has no weight, and so wouldn't be affected by gravity.

 

[Yosso]

The First is what is known as a non-corporeal entity, a bit like a soul.
When Angelus had a soul put in him the body being corporeal continued to be corporeal.
When the First entered the body of a dead person, the body of the dead person was the corporeal unit, and being corporeal it could touch things. Like a book or to sit on a chair. If the First decided to leave a body it would become non-coporeal and do things like swallow itself.

Yosso,
I don't understand what you mean by gravity being the primary determiner for the First existence.
Being aware that it is non corporeal the First simply is, it has no restrictions, it is not governed by anything, evil (First) it is an emotion.

About that Swayze thing in Ghost, moving the object, having to put all of one's concentration to be able to move an item. There is another view, to remove all of ones concentration, that way the item can be moved without thinking about it, in much the same way if you wanted to start writing a letter you pick up a pen, it isn't very often you need to concentrate to pick up the pen.
A strangely made film was that, when the coin moved through the air, they showed Swayze with it on his finger, but moving the can (in the underground railway station) was moved by thought projection and not actually kicking (having physical contact, touching) it.

I should have been clearer. I'm assuming that gravity affects everything, even incorporeal beings like The First, so since it simply goes through solid objects it would go through the floor, the soil, the earth etc because of the effects of gravity. I just have a theory that The First has some sort of levitation abilities to counteract the effects of gravity, these abilities makes it seem like it's standing on solid floor.

 

[Taake]

When the First entered the body of a dead person, the body of the dead person was the corporeal unit, and being corporeal it could touch things. Like a book or to sit on a chair. If the First decided to leave a body it would become non-coporeal and do things like swallow itself.

I understand the logic BUT the body of the dead person can't (IMO) be a coporeal unit for the First because it is not the actual body of the dead but a representation of it, so it should still have been incoporeal. If it wasn't a representation but the actual body then how could the First parade around as Buffy? She may have died but she is still in possession of her body.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Well I have had experience of the dead being physical, and so have others I know. That is what I based my comment on.
So for the First to enter a dead body and have it be corporeal that I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Also some stuff in the show is only there to make you think, add to that the First can be bloody clever at times.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

The First may follow the pattern of ghosts who are tied to a particular place. The ghost will walk a path that he has known and even if it is dug out or raised up, he will be at a level where it was during his lifetime, giving the appearance of walking above the ground or sunk into it, respectively. However, the first is not tied to a specific location in this case, because he is not a ghost. Being tied to a location and standing or sitting in the context of that location is expected.