The First vs Wolfram and Hart, who is stronger?

[ukkid09]

personally the first was here when the first shadow came to earth so i think the first is stronger.

 

[StuckinTraffic]

I kinda see W&H as something the First would use as a means to an end. They'd be a tool of the First.

 

[Revolver]

Well, the First can't really do anything but taunt people. I'd say Wolfram & Hart.

 

[Bob]

but Revolver, true the first can only taunt, but he is THE FIRST!
he inspires all those evil and they would happyly put down their lifes for the firsts...
the first all the way!

 

[JCC]

Why are there always threads like this?

The First isn't a beasty, it is the incorporeal manifestation of Evil as a force. Their battle would consist of:

First: Raaaaah, I'm scary.

Wolfram and Hart: We can't actually hit you.

First: ...Truce?

 

[BillyidolwannaB]

I think the first, although they were both much weaker than i would have thought. But first had a vamp army and caleb. W&h didn't really do much apart from darla. And the seriously disappointing black thorn. I forget if they were responsible for jasmine. I dont think so.

 

[Blaze]

Well Wolfram and heart had a lot of connections, so I think it was stronger. But not all of those connections were evil so its a tought one.

But the first can't do much technicly, and the First was ''destroy'' (well his army was) in one season. W and H is still very much standing, even in Hell-A, so in wins it for me


-Blaze-

 

[caitaintdead]

What kind of strength are we talking about?

Physical?
Emotional?
Alcohol consumption?

I think the first would drink Wolfram and Hart under the table.

---------- Post added at 02:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 AM ----------

Yeah! That's what I'm saying! The First would drink until Wolfram and Hart were under a table.

I mean come on, he sent Caleb to a winery!

 

[ukkid09]

You forgeting that the first was made when the earth was created , and the first made every evil . So the first made wolfram and heart

 

[Mozzymandias]

Why are there always threads like this?

The First isn't a beasty, it is the incorporeal manifestation of Evil as a force. Their battle would consist of:

First: Raaaaah, I'm scary.

Wolfram and Hart: We can't actually hit you.

First: ...Truce?

Or even

First: Raaaaah, I'm scary.

Wolfram and Hart: We can't actually hit you.

[The First turns into a loved one of the representative they're talking to]

Wolfram and Hart: We have contracts that legally bind people to our company after death.

First: ......oh

Also even taking into account The First made Wolfram and Hart that's not to say that automatically makes them weaker, many things that are made are to be stronger and more powerful of sorts.

 

[Perny]

First: Raaah Tis I....Scary thing

Wolfram and Hart: Yeah..Er...

First: I send my monsters after ya!

Wolfram and Hart: Your monster is our client. If he attacks us, we will sue his monster ass off. It's in the contract.

First: Oh...*Sits sobbing in the corner*

 

[Willow-Tree]

Probably The First, because they can disguise themselves and easily get under your skin.

 

[Phantom Dennis]

The First can't DO anything it can't touch anything, its power is limited to talking to people. You might say it's stronger because it has control of Wolfram & Hart but without the firm the First can't act on it's own and goes back to being an annoying ghost 🙂

One needs the other.

 

[FunnySyph]

Hey I'm new, but correct me if I'm wrong....

No one ever made any mention of The First having influence in any other dimension besides Earth. So wouldn't that make The Wolf, The Ram, and The Hart stronger simply because they can influence multiple dimensions (ala Pylea or references by Illiyria)?

Maybe a dimension, in the Buffyverse, needs good and evil to be created. It is a balance. But maybe every dimension has its own First. The truly powerful beings can influence and shape other dimensions besides their own.

P.S. Why can't I put demon-Giles as my icon?!?!?

 

[InsaneMystic]

P.S. Why can't I put demon-Giles as my icon?!?!?

Welcome to the boards. 🙂

There doesn't seem to be a demon Giles avatar among the selection offered atm, and custom avatars are only possible for the mods on this site. Feel free to read the FAQ & Boards Rules for more info.

While you're at it, you can also put yourself up for adoption in the Bad Eggs subforum to have someone experienced with the board help you along getting used to it, and you can ask to be sorted into one of our four noble houses in the Sorting Tome Thread.


(Ha! Beat you to it this time, TKs! *gg* )

 

[Atren]

Either a lot of posters or I am wrong -- the First Evil did NOT create Wolfram and Hart. Just because it is part of them does not mean it has any control over them. In fact they could easily be mortal enemies. Another extreme example -- as there is evil in buffy too does that mean the First Evil controls her too?

 

[ukkid09]

When evil is over the first is over , But when evil is still in place in earth it still lives



Yeah but Buffy qoute " We've beaten themback, but we're not dealing with them anymore. We're dealing with the reason they exist. Evil. The strongest. The First. 😀

 

[FunnySyph]

What always bugged me is that if there is a "First Evil," couldn't they at least mention a "First Good?" Maybe that would be too biblical?