The Gift of Peace...

[SlayerFest]

Would you want to live in a "Shiny Happy People" world that Jasmine was trying to create, a world without sadness or murder or world hunger or would you rather live in the world we live in now? So in other words...would you take the red pill or the blue pill?

In this situation red = keeping the world as it is (or pulling a Fred once you learn the truth), and blue = living a lie.

Oh and the red/blue pill thing is a reference to The Matrix, I kept thinking about it while I was watching the Jasmine arc and I wanted to see what you guys thought.

 

[Robb Stark]

I would rather live in the world we know today. I can say that without a shadow of a doubt.

At different stages of our lives, we all get chances to do what is right, or what is easy. It would be very easy to live in Jasmine's world. Very easy. It would be incredibly easy to put the sword away live the lie.

But at the end of the day, that's what it would be. A lie. It wouldn't be real, and really, that's all we have. We have what we make real. Is our world perfect, or even close to it? No, it isn't. Not by a long shot. It's hard, cruel and cold. And if we let it, it'll always be that way. My favorite line from the Buffyverse is Angel's from "Deep Down". "That's why there's us. We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be". That means something to me. That means a lot to me, and I really, honestly from the bottom-of-my-soul believe it.

The only ones who can make this world what we need it to be, what we deserve it to be, is us. No one else. Not any type of god or magic or any sort of short cut. Just us. As Buffy said, the hardest thing in this world is to live in it, but it doesn't always have to be that way.

Huh. Pretty cool answer when you can quote Buffy, Angel, Batman and Albus Dumbledore.

(By the way, every time I hear "red pill or the blue pill" I always think of that night at the Oscars where Keanau Reeves was just stoned out of his mind, sitting by himself and mimicking that scene to himself over and over again. So funny)

 

[SlayerFest]

I would rather live in the world we know today. I can say that without a shadow of a doubt.

At different stages of our lives, we all get chances to do what is right, or what is easy. It would be very easy to live in Jasmine's world. Very easy. It would be incredibly easy to put the sword away live the lie.

But at the end of the day, that's what it would be. A lie. It wouldn't be real, and really, that's all we have. We have what we make real. Is our world perfect, or even close to it? No, it isn't. Not by a long shot. It's hard, cruel and cold. And if we let it, it'll always be that way. My favorite line from the Buffyverse is Angel's from "Deep Down". "That's why there's us. We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be". That means something to me. That means a lot to me, and I really, honestly from the bottom-of-my-soul believe it.

The only ones who can make this world what we need it to be, what we deserve it to be, is us. No one else. Not any type of god or magic or any sort of short cut. Just us. As Buffy said, the hardest thing in this world is to live in it, but it doesn't always have to be that way.

Huh. Pretty cool answer when you can quote Buffy, Angel, Batman and Albus Dumbledore.

(By the way, every time I hear "red pill or the blue pill" I always think of that night at the Oscars where Keanau Reeves was just stoned out of his mind, sitting by himself and mimicking that scene to himself over and over again. So funny)

You basically just summed up how I feel about life...for the most part haha. And wait what is this Oscar moment you're speaking of?? Hahah

 

[Robb Stark]

You basically just summed up how I feel about life...for the most part haha. And wait what is this Oscar moment you're speaking of?? Hahah

At the Oscars years ago, The Matrix was nominated for all kinds of awards. That scene, the red pill/blue pill one, was up for some kind of special affects Oscar, I can't remember which one. When it was announced they cut to Keanu Reeves in the audience. He's sitting there alone, just looking at his hands and mouthing the words "red pill. Blue pill" over and over again to himself. You could just tell he was baked beyond belief. I couldn't stop laughing.

 

[SlayerFest]

At the Oscars years ago, The Matrix was nominated for all kinds of awards. That scene, the red pill/blue pill one, was up for some kind of special affects Oscar, I can't remember which one. When it was announced they cut to Keanu Reeves in the audience. He's sitting there alone, just looking at his hands and mouthing the words "red pill. Blue pill" over and over again to himself. You could just tell he was baked beyond belief. I couldn't stop laughing.

Haha do you remember who won the Oscar? I tried looking it up but I can't find it, sounds hilarious.

 

[caitaintdead]

It's a very interesting and complex question.

I don't particularly like the world we live in. People are given the choice to live in the world that they want and unfortunately people in general seem to choose to live in a cruel and horrible world. It makes me think of this quote:

"I look around at this world you're so eager to be a part of and all I see is six billion lunatics looking for the fastest ride out. Who's not crazy? Look around, everyone's drinking, smoking, shooting up, shooting each other, or just plain screwing their brains out 'cause they don't want 'em anymore. I'm crazy? Honey, I'm the original one-eyed chicklet in the kingdom of the blind, 'cause at least I admit the world makes me nuts."

I think that a world without sadness and without heart ache is a beautiful idea, it is something that I would love to choose. Something that I think that could be done. Taking away peoples will to make decisions sounds brilliant to me. My number one problem with Jasmine and the world that she wanted is that she was taking peoples lives. I have found that when people discuss Jasmine and the world that she created that people are much more likely to discuss the fact that she was taking away peoples free will. People lost their lives though. Those people that she 'ate' were peoples brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, husbands, wives and friends.

To me the reason that Jasmines world was not okay is less about the lack of free will because lets face it - free will means that people are <insert swear word here>. To me the problem is that she was killing innocent people.

For that reason (and that reason alone) I am going to vote no.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Lets take this notion up a notch.
Just suppose Jasmin succeeded, it would make sense that people would be her priority, so getting rid of all those animals that eat grass and take up space for human would be high on her list of things to do.
If that happened, how would Angel have coped having to drink human blood? Would he have moved to the TV show True Blood?

 

[SlayerFest]

It's a very interesting and complex question.

I don't particularly like the world we live in. People are given the choice to live in the world that they want and unfortunately people in general seem to choose to live in a cruel and horrible world. It makes me think of this quote:

"I look around at this world you're so eager to be a part of and all I see is six billion lunatics looking for the fastest ride out. Who's not crazy? Look around, everyone's drinking, smoking, shooting up, shooting each other, or just plain screwing their brains out 'cause they don't want 'em anymore. I'm crazy? Honey, I'm the original one-eyed chicklet in the kingdom of the blind, 'cause at least I admit the world makes me nuts."

I think that a world without sadness and without heart ache is a beautiful idea, it is something that I would love to choose. Something that I think that could be done. Taking away peoples will to make decisions sounds brilliant to me. My number one problem with Jasmine and the world that she wanted is that she was taking peoples lives. I have found that when people discuss Jasmine and the world that she created that people are much more likely to discuss the fact that she was taking away peoples free will. People lost their lives though. Those people that she 'ate' were peoples brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, husbands, wives and friends.

To me the reason that Jasmines world was not okay is less about the lack of free will because lets face it - free will means that people are <insert swear word here>. To me the problem is that she was killing innocent people.

For that reason (and that reason alone) I am going to vote no.

But she killed thousands to save billions. I guess I care more about the free will issue, I mean I care that she killed people, I don't agree with the "kill the few to save the many" argument she had, but those people were enslaved, they were like robots, they were practically dead. It reminds me of Fred's quote in Sacrifice, "I'd rather feel pain than be a shell." which is some disturbing foreshadowing. Damn you Joss.

People do horrible things sometimes and I hate it but...in my opinion there is a balance in the world, and we need that balance. Not everyone uses their freewill to do stupid and terrible things. I don't know, I hate feeling overwhelmed by sadness and sometimes I do think, "Hey but at least those people were happy" but their lack of consciousness and freewill scares the crap out of me. Also, the mothers, daughters, and brothers she killed...their family members wouldn't even miss them. They were so in awe of Jasmine, she could do anything she wanted to them and they'd just nod and smile. That freaks me out.

 

[caitaintdead]

It reminds me of Fred's quote in Sacrifice, "I'd rather feel pain than be a shell." which is some disturbing foreshadowing. Damn you Joss.

And now we shall do it as a round.
"Damn you Joss"

Never noticed this foreshadowing before. I'm doing a rewatch of AtS at the moment and will definitely be watching for this line.

People do horrible things sometimes and I hate it but...in my opinion there is a balance in the world, and we need that balance. Not everyone uses their freewill to do stupid and terrible things. I don't know, I hate feeling overwhelmed by sadness and sometimes I do think, "Hey but at least those people were happy" but their lack of consciousness and freewill scares the crap out of me. Also, the mothers, daughters, and brothers she killed...their family members wouldn't even miss them. They were so in awe of Jasmine, she could do anything she wanted to them and they'd just nod and smile. That freaks me out.

Yeah that absolutely freaks me out. I could handle the thought of losing my free will if it meant making bad decisions, but I don't want to ever have my sense of love taken away.

Take away my dumb as hell decisions by all means, but NEVER take away the love that I had for my friends and family.

 

[SlayerFest]

And now we shall do it as a round.
"Damn you Joss"

Never noticed this foreshadowing before. I'm doing a rewatch of AtS at the moment and will definitely be watching for this line.



Yeah that absolutely freaks me out. I could handle the thought of losing my free will if it meant making bad decisions, but I don't want to ever have my sense of love taken away.

Take away my dumb as hell decisions by all means, but NEVER take away the love that I had for my friends and family.

I'd love to not make stupid decisions anymore haha but yeah, I'd rather go on the run with the people I care about and have to fight for my life, if it meant that I would be self aware. I mean I'm sure people still had love in their hearts, but their love for Jasmine was greater than their love for anyone else. Well that's how it seemed anyway. I'm also doing a re-watch, just finished season 4 and now I just really miss Angelus from Buffy S2.

 

[Ianigsy]

It's an interesting question for me, because for the last year or so I've been on prescription antidepressants- twice a day I take a tablet which makes me more relaxed and stable, and as a result I've already effectively taken the blue pill. But I've also seen a therapist and have plans for things I want to do with the next ten years of my life. So I can't imagine what life without the ability to shape my future would be like- if I didn't have that, I wouldn't be me.

 

[SlayerFest]

It's an interesting question for me, because for the last year or so I've been on prescription antidepressants- twice a day I take a tablet which makes me more relaxed and stable, and as a result I've already effectively taken the blue pill. But I've also seen a therapist and have plans for things I want to do with the next ten years of my life. So I can't imagine what life without the ability to shape my future would be like- if I didn't have that, I wouldn't be me.

Exactly. That last part. If you didn't have the ability to shape your own future, who would you be? In Jasmine's world everyone was basically the same, I mean everyone felt the same way. It reminds me of that episode of Charmed when they're living in a utopia. Everyone's happy for the most part, except for a few who haven't adjusted to the spell, and they just make those people disappear. I'd honestly rather live in this imperfect world than live in a fake one. It also kind of reminds me of what Gunn tells Angel in Time Bomb, about how the worst part about that hell place he was stuck in was the phony life upstairs. Downstairs you knew that you were going to get your heart ripped out, the horror was right in your face, but upstairs, the phony life...it's nice and you're happy, but deep down you have this feeling that it's all a lie. It's kind of like when you have a really fantastic dream, but part of you knows it isn't real, just a tiny part...and then you wake up and you have this terrible feeling.

I have those dreams so often, and I hate them. I hate that feeling. I'd rather live in true pain than in phony happiness. It's really just the thought of living in a world that isn't real that scares the hell out of me, I've been experiencing a lot of depersonalization and derealization lately, and it's seriously the scariest thing I've ever experienced in my life. I'd gladly take the "blue pill" to make those feelings go away...but at the same time I'm afraid to, because I'm afraid that it'll change the way I think, I won't have the same feelings or reactions to things...which will feel totally phony. But I kind of want to take it, because it'll make the feelings that I've been having, that nothing is real, go away. Haha what a contradiction. ugh.

Sorry most of that was just nonsense.

 

[Faith717132]

Yes (blue pill)

Yes (blue pill)

Choice it was!

 

[sisterofmercy]

No. Utopia may be what we aspire to have but I think it's ultimately impossible without having detrimental consequences and limitations on our free will and liberty.