The Great Debate: "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays."

[palabravampiress]

A recent msn article and the subsequent discussion sparked my curiosity. How do my fellow BBers feel about this topic?

As a retail worker, I am doubly interested. My company has given me no specific directive, so i just go with my gut. I usually wish customers a nice day once I finish a transaction, but if they offer me a "Happy Holidays" or a "Merry Christmas," I'll usually say "Thank you" and return the favor. I try to take my cue from the individual customer and not to generalize in either direction. I really and truly appreciate my customers and wish them happiness. I offer service with a smile. I try to remember my regulars. If a customer divulges personal information (one of my regulars just became a grandmother, for instance), I try to remember it so that I can give future transactions a friendly, personal touch. With all that I do to try to ensure a positive experience for my customers, I'd hate to think that some are walking away offended because I didn't correctly guess their Holiday/Christmas greeting preferences. I mean, how is a retail worker supposed to know?

For that matter, what about the retail worker's preference? Should that Nash woman or someone like her ever come to my counter and base her patronage of my store on whether or not I say "Merry Christmas," I'd like to think she would at least consider the fact that I may respond to her "Merry Christmas" with a "Happy Holidays" not because I have been brainwashed or forced by my employer, but because I might not be a Christian or celebrate Christmas as a holiday, myself. I actually found myself far more offended by Nash's point of view than by either of the greetings in question, as she seemed to assume that a retail worker would have no personal preference, but would be the slave to either the corporate preference or the customer's preference. Last time I checked, friendly greetings were a customer service staple, but service workers were as entitled to anyone else to their own religious traditions and greetings.

Ultimately, I think friendly greetings -- whatever their content -- should be accepted in a friendly manner. Most people do not issue friendly greetings as challenges or as offenses. Instead, most people are genuinely wishing someone well. My personal opinion on all of this, then, is that folks should appreciate it whenever a stranger wishes them a happy anything and try not to get upset if that person doesn't use his or her mind reading skills to accurately guess each individual's personal preference.

 

[caitaintdead]

I always say Merry Christmas, or have a good Christmas to people. Not because I feel I need to, and I don't feel guilty about possibly saying it to people that might not be Christian. I don't feel guilty about this, because why should I? If someone of another religion wished me a happy <insert celebration here>, why would I take offense? It's the thought that counts, and the meaning behind the words. If a Chinese worker wished me a happy new year for Chinese new year I would think it was sweet, not disrespectful.

 

[Airam]

I agree that it is ridiculous to expect anyone in customer service to be able to look at a person and just know the holiday they celebrate and greet them accordingly. THAT is just laughable and even more laughable that a customer be offended cause you don't magically say the greeting that suits them. I'm a server right now in a big coorporate restaurant and we are required to only say "Happy Holidays" if we say anything at all... but we aren't required to say anything at all. We aren't allowed to say "Merry Christmas" and I can understand that, its pretty logical to me and I have no problem with it... it just doesn't apply to everyone, wheras Happy Holidays does apply to pretty much everyone (except maybe Jehova's Witnesses). I've already started saying Happy Holidays to all my tables and I haven't encountered any problems, its brought a smile to everyone's face so far. A few people have replied with "Merry Christmas" and when they have I say it back as I too celebrate Christmas... but it makes ya think though... is it presumptious of them to reply "Merry Christmas" to my "Happy Holidays"? What if I were Jewish?

:silly:

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

It is the Christmas season, I celebrate Christmas.
I am a Catholic in a Christian community in a Christian country.

I will wish people a Merry Christmas as most people who do not celebrate it do not care and are not offended. Those who tell me they are offended, I apologise but then graciously tell them that I am celebrating my faith and I would hope that they can celebrate theirs equally as freely.

The people who generally get pissed off by this are anonymous people online who are stirring trouble, scholars who are trying to make a point OR people who are trying to be politically correct but are failing miserably as the general populace couldn't give a rats.

Now, IF I was in the centre of India at Christmas time, I wouldn't wish anyone anything unless they wished it to me first.

EDIT

I do it for myself and to spread cheer, not because of a need to do it.

 

[Airam]

See, okay... the only reason I can kinda see the point of why, say, someone of Jewish faith might be offended by being wished a Merry Christmas or vice versa (especially if said person is aware that that is not or might not be their faith) is because they may feel that person is showing disrespect for their religion by ignoring possible differences in faith... or even might feel that they are having another religion other than their own imposed upon them? Maybe thats crap, but I kinda relate it a bit to when on Sundays at work table after table leaves religious pamphlets in with the tip... and UGH, seriously everytime I get one of these it pisses me off to the ultimate degree... I feel it to be a HUGE imposition... I mean my thinking is if I'm curious about your religion I will go myself and check it out I DON'T need you slipping me "why you might be going to hell" pamphlets, you know?!

Sorry, that was a rant.

 

[palabravampiress]

^^ I agree that one's community might have something to do with one's greeting of choice as well as to one's reaction to a particular greeting.

I'm a non-Christian in a relatively diverse community in a (supposedly) secular country, so I think that makes things much dicier. I mean, a large part of the "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" debate in the U.S. stems from the social and moral conflict between the rather pervasive and disproportionate influence of the Religious Right and their more secular opposition on both sides of the Left/Right fence. There is definitely a group of religious folks who want to use the laws to spread and/or support their religion and a group of secular types who want to squelch any and all public displays of religion. The Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas debate is just an example of how the rest of us sometimes get caught up in the middle.

In the interest of full disclosure, I should note that I tend to lean more toward the secular side. I don't have issues with people wishing me a "Merry Christmas" even though I don't plan to celebrate the holiday. How could I possibly expect them to know my plans (or, in this case, my non-plans)? My issues are more with people who preach politics from the pulpit or vote on the rights of others based on their own personal religious preferences. As a non-religious person, I am deeply offended when the religious majority forces their rules onto the law books. That's another debate for another thread, though. In general, as long as the pro-"Merry Christmas" crowd doesn't try to mandate that greeting by law, they can wish as many "Merry Christmases" as they please and I will smile and wish them right back.


^ No need to apologize. Rants are welcome. 🙂

I agree that there is something slightly offensive about people who actively try to convert you. The "Merry Christmas" police like the Nash lady in the article do sort of fall into that category a bit.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I just read the article and I feel strongly that both women need get something - a life.

I have no issue with the people saying happy holidays (though I don't hear it that much in the UK, it is Christmas) at this time of year and I won't go out of my way to check who says what.

BUT it is the festive season and woman 2 needs to get that dirty great big pole out of her ass and live a little.

So she doesn't believe in the Christian God, what is so wrong about OTHER people celebrating, being happy and wishing peace and goodwill to others for a month out of the year.

Both the women are preaching a kind of persecution.
One moaning that the other is wrong and should stop.

Me, everyone should be allowed to get on with it how they want as long as its not hurting anyone else.

Gah people piss me off sometimes!!!

 

[Kean]

I have worked in retail for 6 years and I always wish people a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year during the Christmas Season. I know it's a little easier for me since Ireland is a Christain country so 90% of my customers will be Christian but like EB said, I am Catholic and I celebrate my faith, I don't feel I should have to apologise or walk on eggshells for anyone because of that. Infact, I won't do it.

I have had alot of people react badly to something I have said innocently. A woman came in looking for a shirt for some male relation of her's, it was quite a small size (14 1/2) which is usual a teenage size. She commented on how he would be horrified to know she was getting a boys shirt and I smiled thinking it was for her grandson or something like that. She stopped mid sentence, glared at me icily and said 'This is no laughing matter, this shirt is for a terminally ill man with Cancer'. In all fairness how in the name of God was I to know that!

Oh the joys of working with the public!

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Its not about forcing one persons religious belief onto someone else, its simply about celebrating life, love and peace.

Its the people who make a big deal out of it that makes it difficult for the rest.

As I said, I wish Merry Christmas to everyone because you cannot truly know who believes what until they tell you AND if they have a problem with me wishing them a Merry Christmas, well they are the ones with the problem. I haven't said it to be malicious, mean spirited or imposing my beliefs, I have festively wished them a good few days.
[br][/br]
Edit:
[br][/br]

palabravampiress agrees: Yes; both women need to get a life. I just take exception to Nash because I fear she might show up at my counter! lol.

If she turned up at my desk I would simply say.

Seasons Greetings to all celebrating their different faiths at this time of year - please feel free to choose which ever exit you like as you leave in disgust you withered old hag 🙂

 

[Lou]

Well, personally, I don't mind what people wish me. It's nice of them. I wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy New Year, Happy Kwanzaa....and all the days in between, (including "boxing day" which is apparently December 26th). I certainly don't wish anyone ONLY a Merry Christmas but hope they're Hanukah is hell on earth. (Which I guess would be hard this year, but you get the drift.)
And I don't see what the big deal is.
But, I will say, this stupid crusade they've started is UTTERLY ridiculous! I see it everywhere and it's the most insane thing ever.
It's not like they're screaming, "DOWN WITH CHRISTMAS! JESUS WAS A LAME-O" They're simply trying to encompass EVERYONE, and all the holidays and make everyone feel welcome in their stores.
It's the right thing to do.
It's like they're totally BLIND to the fact that while they love their faith, other people do also. In fact, I find it more than a little upsetting that it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find Hanukah wrapping paper at Walmart or Target and everything is done up in red and green. How do they think the Jewish people feel wandering about shopping for one of THEIR important holidays and being swamped by Christmas? And it's not as if there aren't Jewish people around every corner.
In fact, I HEAR that Where Ever You Go There's Always Someone Jewish!
I think it's just the same stupid mentality that Hitler had in a strange warped way. It's this "Our beliefs are RIGHT, and yours shouldn't even be acknowledged". Like Christmas is the ONLY holiday that deserves mentioning AND not only that it MUST be mentioned to the exclusion of all others.

I'm Catholic, but not the best one. I can't honestly say how much of the Bible I'm willing to believe. But, I think, as a whole, it makes a pretty good moral compass. And, I'm all for celebrating Jesus's birth, even if it's not the right day. He was a good guy by all accounts. I love the warmth and fun of everyone getting together and spreading love and all the stuff that goes with it. I think Jesus would be pleased that celebrating his birthday brings people together in such a lovely way.
On the other hand, I think this crusade would NOT please him at all. And I don't understand how so many "Christians" can forget about the "reason for the season" in a way that basically SMACKS the reason right in the face.
When did Jesus ever going around causing a stink and putting down the Jews? When did he march into stores and say, "If you don't believe I am the best and refuse to make anyone who doesn't believe in me feel welcome, I will cause a fuss and put you out of business"?

Sorry, but it's one of my pet peeves. I HATE living in the Bible Belt and being surrounded by these hateful people stating their Christians, as if we're the same.

Truth be told though, I really don't care much about the people who celebrate nothing. They're just being wished a happy next day or so. They can live with the fact that the next day happens to be Christmas.
But, I do believe that stores are right to put up Holidays. They ARE Holidays (DIFFERENT Holidays) and people should be wished happy on them! Now if the employees WISH to say Merry Christmas, that is fine, as long as the people will also take it gracefully if the employee wishes them a Happy Hanukah or Happy Kwanzaa or whatever, too!

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

When did Jesus ever going around causing a stink and putting down the Jews? When did he march into stores and say, "If you don't believe I am the best and refuse to make anyone who doesn't believe in me feel welcome, I will cause a fuss and put you out of business"?

December 27th during the big sales.

He hates the shops that don't drop their prices enough!

 

[Faith]

I always saw 'Happy Holidays' as an American thing as people just don't say that here. It is either 'Merry Christmas' or 'Have a good Christmas'. I tend to go with the second one myself.

For me this says quite a bit about what Christmas has become, it has turned into another commercial holiday and the meaning is lost. Now i'm not the most religious person although I was raised RC I don't know what I believe in to be honest. For me Christmas is about spending time with my family and not about shopping and presents.

There is a thing as being 'over PC'.

 

[sk]

It actually scares me the this can be any kind of issue at all.

People can wish me a happy whatever, why should anyone ever be offended by that.
It doesn't matter what I believe or not believe in, it's still just a friendly phrase.
If you get offended by that you need to relax a bit.

Seriously, I just don't get it...

/SK

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I have the perfect answer.

When you're at the counter and you're wondering what to say to the customer ask yourself one question

What Would Jesus Do?

 

[Joyce Summers]

In all honesty, I say Merry Christmas regardless of what religion they are. I have several friends who are Muslim- that does NOT stop me saying Merry Christmas during the holiday season, and in fact, one of them, I know for a fact, gives out Christmas Cards at her work because while it is not her religious holiday she appreciates it is of most of the people around her.

The thing is why should we be worried about offending someone by openly celebrating our religion by wishing them a happy time? Which is essentially what the phrase "Merry Christmas" does. I mean if someone says to me Happy Hannukah or you know Excellent 'Eed to you, I'm not offended, but instead complimented by the fact they've thought to wellwish me during their holiday. I once recieved an 'Eed card in college and was, I'll admit, geekly thrilled about it. So why should we stop openly saying Christmas if we wish to? Okay, fair enough if you personally wish to say Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings or whatever, but if I want to say Christmas I'll say it. And if you ask any non-christian 95% will say it doesn't bother them.

 

[Bluebird]

I'm an atheist but I would never be offended by anyone wishing me well during one of their religious festivals. My gran and granda are Catholics, but my mum and dad are sooo not religious, so I didn't get raised with religion but it's in my extended family. Anyways, the point is I don't care what a person wishes me, as long as they're being nice and spreading the joy then what's the problem? But I think that should go for all religious types. If someone is being nice to you and wishing you well during one of their religious festivals then why get offended? It's not like they're going out of their way to offend you personally. It's nice to be nice.:biggrin:

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Without going off on a tangent I think the whole Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas thing is indicative of a much larger issue; that being societies, especially in the retail section, inability to accept or offer general niceties.

I cannot tell you how many times I have told a cashier to have a nice day after he or she rings me up only to receive a scowl as a response. How many times I am told 'thank you' with a scowl on their face.

And I am just as bad as well; far from perfect, I quickly look at their body language and how they react with me upon first making eye contact and my pleasantries towards and with them are based on that; which I admit is wrong.

I feel this general underlying sense of separation is only amplified during holiday seasons when, for some, it becomes mandatory to spread holiday cheer, and connect (even at the smallest level) on a personal nature with another.

But that's just my opinion- I could be wrong.

 

[yellowcrayon]

I'm Eastern Orthodox, and proud of it. As such, I say Merry Christmas as that's what I'm celebrating. It's not because I want to go out there and smash all these other holidays. My husband's Mexican, one of my best friend's Peruvian... they say Feliz Navidad (Happy Nativity), and that's even more specific to a religious holiday than simply Merry Christmas. It doesn't mean they're forcing their religious beliefs on whomever they say it to.

My first roommate in college was Muslim (we didn't last longer than one semester not because of that, but because she was a partier, and I was a studier, and I didn't want to live in the party dorm 😛). We talked about this and she told me that she has no reason to be offended by people wishing her a Merry Christmas, as it means they're taking time to be nice, etc. (what all y'all have said) She responds with her holiday, not to throw it back in their face or some such, but because she's proud of what she's celebrating, and wants to return the favour of wishing them a happy holiday.

I'm in the middle of finals, so my brain's gone, but I hope that made sense. 🙂

 

[Randy Giles]

Whether or not someone celebrates Christmas should not even be an issue. If you say "Merry Christmas", what's the harm? I don't care what religion you are, you will be around on Christmas day, even if you don't celebrate it...personally I think if someone gets offended by someone telling them "Merry Christmas" it's because they're the type of person who just loves to find things to get offended about, so I really don't care if that person does get offended.

 

[white avenger]

I just received an e-mail advertisement from the WB wishing me a "Happy Chrismukkah." Maybe that's supposed to be the new universal good for this season.