The Hot Topic: Does Joss Care?

Mr. Pole said:
The question wasn't is he still involved, it was has he distanced himself/grown tired. Being involved does not mean he hasn't distanced himself. 

Buffy comics most certainly ARE a cash cow, and it was never stated he needed the income.
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If they are both the same, then it's impossible to answer the question. We need some real life info to make a decision. Based on what I read her, I'd say he cares. No big money, no big fame, no new fans most likely - why else would he go to the summit and do the final edit?
 
Mr Trick said:
Sure, but I guess if they haven't liked them for awhile then they can make that choice to stop reading. I just think it is a dangerous road to go down to start bringing issues of money into such things as art/culture.
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Like all the people who complained about 6 or 7 or AtS S4 or, heck, since S3. Logically, yes. Emotionally, not so simple. That's why they're called fanatics. He was certainly more involved then than he is now, yet people frequently blame his absence for their problems.

I suppose it depends on what you think of Joss. Or perhaps the depth of his caring. I do think he cares about the franchise, yes. I do think he cares about some characters. But from what I read of his attendance at the summit, he sat there, listened to ideas, asked where the 'buffy' of it was* and that was pretty much it. Maybe more info will surface later, as it usually does. I don't think we learned of that robot nonsense or mini!Giles until after.

*But I've read them and there ain't no Buffy in it at all. It's the Spike and Xander show. Her story is directly tied to them, in Bella-esque fashion, and appears to be so up to #19. Maybe there's an underlying meta point to that, but we'll see. As far as Buffy the character goes, I don't think he's cared since she jumped of the tower.
 
Joss cares about Buffy and Angel. He doesn't need them, yet he's still involved , what other evidence do you need for his true love of the verse.
 
After thinking about this for a while, I think the problem is actually that Joss loves this franchise TOO much.

He said it himself that S8 was so outlandish because they allowed themselves to be consumed by the idea of making this show without a budget. You don't do that if you don't love something with everything you have.

I think Joss doesn't want to let these characters go, but he doesn't have the time to devote to them as he once did. So he gives them a rough outline of his ideas and lets them go on their own, approving whatever they give back to him. Yes, he clearly reads everything or most of it, and he's signing off on it, so he must approve of what they're writing, but I do think that there might be something in him that's just agreeing to certain things because he wants these characters to still be around.
 
I'd say that's not love so much as exploitation. 😛 Loving something generally suggests you care what happens to them.
 
NothingVentured said:
I don't think we learned of that robot nonsense or mini!Giles until after.
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He absolutely did. Mini!Giles was his idea, in fact. I believe the robot/Buffy's pseudo-pregnancy storyline was his also. While he may not vet every single panel or line of dialogue, every major story development gets run by him beforehand.
 
AndrewCrossett said:
He absolutely did. Mini!Giles was his idea, in fact. I believe the robot/Buffy's pseudo-pregnancy storyline was his also. While he may not vet every single panel or line of dialogue, every major story development gets run by him beforehand.
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Both examples of why imo Whedon has lost it when it comes to writing for the verse. I mean what on earth was he thinking when he dreamt up those mad ideas. Just because Whedon writes it doesn't mean it's always going to be good.

Does Whedon care? Yes, but he's moved on and got better things to do with his time.
 
Indeed, just because Joss comes up with something/says something doesn't make it automatically true or an act of unparraled genius. Sometimes he makes dumb mistakes.
You only have to look to the tv shows for examples of that.
 
If Joss says it's true in the Buffyverse, then it's true. It's his story to tell, not ours.

Those who don't like it will move on to something else. Many already have. I intend to stick around to the end.

Some of Joss Whedon's fans may tend to over-idolize him, but his creations have brought me more entertainment than just about anything else, so he'll always have my respect and support.
 
"Some of Joss Whedon's fans may tend to over-idolize him,"

God only knows how anyone could do that after the madder parts of season 8 is anybodys guess.
 
AndrewCrossett said:
It's his story to tell
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I have to disagree with this. It's his IDEA, but when you have scores of other writers and directors involved all shaping and molding the narrative it ceases to be HIS story and becomes a collective story. All based off of his idea, yes, but to say that the Buffyverse is his story is a slight to everyone else that had a hand in creating it.
 
Silverspike
Silverspike
Exactly.
Silverspike said:
God only knows how anyone could do that after the madder parts of season 8 is anybodys guess.
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Yeah, season 8 is pretty batshit, I'll give you that but is it really more batshit than the show? Dawn's introduction, Giles/Joyce, Buffy Bot, Queller ( ayy ) "Superstar", "Where the Wild Things Are" - how are all of these any less nuts than season 8?
 
EVIL UU said:
Yeah, season 8 is pretty batshit, I'll give you that but is it really more batshit than the show? Dawn's introduction, Giles/Joyce, Buffy Bot, Queller ( ayy ) "Superstar", "Where the Wild Things Are" - how are all of these any less nuts than season 8?
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I don't know man, I'm imagining some horrible wire work and cheap CGI effects being mixed with Gellar and Boreanaz humping each other in space, and it's causing my mind to go all Blue Screen of Death. Nothing in either show touches that level of insanity, it's quite the leap.
 
Silverspike said:
Season 8 an example of just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
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I don't have an issue with the 'craziness' of it. I mean, honestly you expect that. It was the scale and reach that I had issues with.

What made Buffy, Buffy, was in large part Sunnydale. The small, isolated setting. The little world unto itself. The.. intimacy of Sunnydale. Angel felt larger, more wide reaching. Angel felt global. But Buffy was always very intimate and homely. The comics ruined that. I had no issue with robots, etc, to me, what made it feel un-Buffy was the globetrotting and various locales.
 
SiegePerilous02 said:
I don't know man, I'm imagining some horrible wire work and cheap CGI effects being mixed with Gellar and Boreanaz humping each other in space, and it's causing my mind to go all Blue Screen of Death. Nothing in either show touches that level of insanity, it's quite the leap.
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But "Where the Wild Things Are" is basically the same story, isn't it? Compelled by an alien force Buffy and Riley have badness-inducting non stop sex...just not in space and without apocalyptic winged-feline offspring. Yeah, I kinda see your point.

Still, I'm not sure, might have to think about it some more.
 
EVIL UU said:
Yeah, season 8 is pretty batshit, I'll give you that but is it really more batshit than the show? Dawn's introduction, Giles/Joyce, Buffy Bot, Queller ( ayy ) "Superstar", "Where the Wild Things Are" - how are all of these any less nuts than season 8?
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Puppet Angel. Puppet Angel is basically the stupidest thing on either show- a vampire getting turned into a plush doll- and yet it's a fan-favourite episode that loads of people say is the height of genius.

Many who critise the comics say 'eh, Giant-Dawn was crap' but then they love Puppet Angel. Logic fail imo.

Mr. Pole said:
What made Buffy, Buffy, was in large part Sunnydale. The small, isolated setting. The little world unto itself. The.. intimacy of Sunnydale. Angel felt larger, more wide reaching. Angel felt global. But Buffy was always very intimate and homely. The comics ruined that. I had no issue with robots, etc, to me, what made it feel un-Buffy was the globetrotting and various locales.
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This I think is a fair criticism. Season 8 was really very all over the place and didn't have that intimate feel- the latter seasons have benefitted from sticking to one location- Angel and Faith in London (and now magic town) and Buffy in San Fran.
 
Both shows were of course littered with crazy ideas. I think just having the cast there normalised the whole thing and you were more prepared to accept whatever craziness was going on around them. It just more difficult not to get distracted by the craziness when it's cartoons on a page. I think that's why giant Dawn feels really far out there and yet rat Amy seems plausible. Neither is more crazy but you perceive things differently without that human element.

Absolutely agree about missing Sunnydale and the globe trotting being a big issue. Sunnydale almost felt like an extra character on Buffy. Trying to keep track of where and even when everyone was in Season 8 was a nightmare.
 
The problem with comics (and animated films) is that the kind of expenses and logistics that impel people to stay in one location in real life do not exist in comics. It costs nothing to have Buffy in Sunnydale in one panel and beside the Eiffel Tower in the next. Comic characters can go anywhere and do anything without any kind of planning (unless you want to show it in the comic - but usually you don't) because the acquisition of airline tickets, going to the airport, getting on a plane, flying wherever, landing, collecting baggage, checking into wherever you are going to live detracts from the story unless there is something about it you want to show. And in Bargaining Part 1 (6ABB01), they do get a simple airline trip wrong. Why does Sunnydale, a town of 38,500 people, have an airport that can handle the DC-10 they show flying away?

Spike and the roaches on a spacecraft? You couldn't have this in any kind of believable circumstance, but in the comics, it's just another panel to colour in and add some dialogue for - there is no difference in the expense of doing this than making the next panel in a more believable location and circumstance.

The fact that it is simple to write any kind of story for the comics and unbelievable situations are no more difficult to portray than believable ones means that all kinds of flights of fancy can happen in the comics with no more effort than a credible story line. So they do but it may detract from the entertainment value.
 
thetopher said:
Buffy in San Fran.
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I hadn't read anything since the first few issues of season 8 and hated it.. I read the last two issues when Spike and Buffy did the nasty and I thought 'this feels like Buffy' was it only season 8 that it was global?
 
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