The 'Ive just seen the matrix' thread (MATRIX SPOILERS)

Khaych

It's a Madhouse!
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Ok I only started this thread cause I wanted to blab about the movie and I didn't fancy putting spoiler tags on everything just to protect the intrest of people who hadn't seen it.

Okay one thing I heard from the critics is that the plot was way too thin. However, I think it actually was very deep in it's own way. If anything, it was too subtle, which can look the same as being weak if you're not perceptive.


Did anyone leave the movie thinking "Wow, there is a matrix within the matrix"? Cause I did. When Neo shows some evidence of having extra-normal ability OUTSIDE the matrix, I at first thought that he had gained some kind of connection with the machines. But wait a minute.. He doesn't have a radio built into his brain, how could he do that? The answer is: he couldn't. It's not physically possible to do what he did at the end of the movie, knocking those Sentinals down (however he did it). I'm thinking that the matrix is far more clever than we originally realized.

What's the ultimate prison? Answer: The prison you don't even know you are in.

Well, for 99% of the population, the matrix was a good enough prison, and most people didn't even realize it was one. However, what about the ones who got free? Is it possible that the 'architect' actually made TWO matrixes, one within the other? He allows one person to escape (Neo) and that person trains generations of freedom fighters afterwards who all think that they have tasted true freedom. But have they? Maybe their 'free' world is in fact, just another matrix, outside of the first one. With this environment in place, who would ever think of breaking out? All they are thinking of is breaking people into the second matrix, without even considering that it might be a matrix itself. Of course, this dual-matrix appraoch would have a flaw. Simply put: Once everyone had broken out, they go back to the same situation as if they only had one matrix. Perhaps this is why they need to 'reset' the system, eliminate Zion, and re-establish The matrix as the only reality for mankind, except for a small group of new 'rebels'.

THis definately fits the 'choices' model the architect was presenting to Neo. It seems that Neo exists as a release valve for human ambition and ingenuity. They simply channel humanity's escape efforts into another prison.

Of course, this theory allows for the existance of anyone you choose as the actuall jailers. It doesn't have to be machines. Morpheus has seen them harvesting humans as batteries etc etc, but has he really? Or maybe he didn't? Maybe it was just an illusion of the second matrix? I don't pretend to have any answers for this kind of stuff, but if we admit the possibility that there is a matrix outside of the matrix, it's anyone's guess as to what is outside that.

I also think that at the end of the movie, Neo realizes all this somehow, on an instinctual level. He is about to break the cycle, because he has begun to believe he can do extrordinary things in the 'real world'.

Damn! I give this movie a 9 out of ten. Maybe a ten out of ten, for making me think so much about it! lol
 
I really liked this movie and I also like the big philosophy, but I'm still experiencing the after effects of this movie.

I like the whole theory you made their, but it just sounds too simple ... I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but "Revelations" suggest that there are more unexpected plot twists upcoming.

I'd give it 9 out of 10 aswell.
 
I never thought that Zion would be a back-up matrix. I figured that the man who survived the sentinal attack was either working for the agents or was an agent himself. I think that it is quite possible that Agent Smith has acquired the ability to move into the real world. That sort of metaphysics would also help to explain how Neo can destroy the sentinals in the real world, i.e. telekinetic powers brought on by freeing his mind.

BTW, if what the Architect said is true...there have been 5 previous Matrix constructs. And each of them has lasted approximately 100 years. The war of humans vs. machines happens during the "early twenty-first century." Then, in actuality the movie would be taking place sometime between 2500 - 3000 AD rather than 2199 AD as Morpheus claims in the first movie. Perhaps, human beings have evolved. Maybe, Neo was born with the ability to use a higher percentage of his brain. Thus, he has begun to manifest his superpowers in the real world.

However, this whole dream within a dream thing is kinda confusing. If that was the case, I think that they would leave that until the end. As a shocker finale to Revolutions.

Like the superhero waking up to find himself in a mental institution and his "powers" nothing more than delusion. Its been done, but I wouldn't put anything past the W. bro.s
 
Hehe yeah, just a crazy theory. It's possible as you mentioned that humanity has developed abnormal mental abilities in the past 600 years, however, there is never any mention of it, and such a thing would be something they would have told neo right away were it common, since it differs with the realities he is used to, so Neo would probably be the first evidence of such development. An intruiging idea though, and not out of the realm of possibility.

Here's a couple more though, from a few friends I saw the movie with again tonight. 🙂

1: My friend Steve proposed that Neo is actually the embodyment of the matrix itself - the ghost in the machine if you will. Kind of like a mass consciousness, but also the ultimate irony considering that man makes machine, machine rebels against man, machine builds prison for man, prison gains a refined sentience (as Neo and other former 'Neo's'), and Prison (matrix) as Neo helps man liberate himself from the machines. This theory is kind of feasible given that, as you mentioned in another thread, Agent Smith can upload software onto the human brain, so there is no reason why Neo could not simply be software imposed on a living body.

2: A theory my brother and I came up with over coffee after the movie: We see that one of the orphan children (the bald kids from the first movie) gives Neo a spoon as a reminder that there is no spoon. He has it given to Neo OUTSIDE the matrix. Maybe this gave Neo the idea that reality is no barrier even outside the matrix. The theory is that Neo's power of belief is so strong it allows him to actually alter reality even in the real world, something which was not known to be possible. He gains the ability to actually alter reality itself, which is pretty much an old idea in some philosophies, but would be the first time anyone has ever actually done it.

My brother also was quick to point out that a second hovercraft arrived shortly after Neo 'disabled' the sentinals, so it is possible that the hovercraft simply used an EMP pulse on them, but that doesn't explain how Neo was able to sense them, or why he collapsed right after the Sentinals were disabled.

Anyway, more questions than answers, and some of this is pretty far out there, but I'm interested in hearing any other theories anyone might have.
 
The spoon, that's it ... to me that is THE prove of him having superpowers outside of the Matrix instead of the Zion-Reality being another back-up Matrix.

@ Khaych: thank your brother for me!

On Revolutions, I think that the traitor, the one, who wanted to kill Neo, and survived the Sentinel's attack on Zion (that was the same person, right?) will play a big (perhaps key) part in this movie.

BTW: Did anybody recognize Gina Torres (Jasmine from Angel)?
 
That'd be cool. Lawrence would have made a great Wolfram and Heart Exec.
 
lol I loved he movie, I think it overloaded it'self a bit much on some of the philosophical stuff the whole "choices" thing throughout the movie was a little weird how everytime it came it up it contradicted what was said last. Everything else I really enjoyed.

I myself am pretty confident that the guy that survived the attack was smith in some form. Which I hope will turn out great in the next movie, although smith without Hugo Weavings face will be annoying.

Heres a question, the explaination of paranormal events within the matrix is rather interesting but what about paranormal events before humanity was enslaved? did they simply not have them, or what... perhaps they did and the machines are just mimicing what humanity pervouslys belived?

Anyhow great movie deffinatly worth a watch.
 
ok, to the Neo doing stuff outside... I thought of something...
Even though the matrix within a matrix idea is pretty much option 1

I noticed that many times throughtout the movie, agents or exiled programs mention Neo being "only human"... and then the architecht mentions something about a change being done to Neo in order to be able to talk to him in the source... maybe he's not "only human" anymore

I loved the vampires in the movie...
 
That would be great!
But the thing that really left me mad at the first place was the Oracle, I mean what happened there? Is the Oracle a liar, is she telling the truth, is she evil, good.....
 
oracle is just a program...her falkin body guard is amazing.....a program to help neo get to the architect...
 
ah...it'll be another cypher situation...he'll cause some sabotage but he'll be caught...the real battle will be inside the matrix...neo will meet the arc one more time...
 
vampires - well, now i'm not so sure if they were vamps

the guy that persephone was killed, i thought was a vamp, because they were watching a vamp movie, but now i think he's a werewolf.... and i think persephone is a vampire (she said she likes to feed on emotiones, and acts all vamp-like)

the oracle explained how angels, vampires, extraterrestrials, well everything that shouldn't be in the world are actually exiled older programs, sometimes really dangerous... thats why i also think that the french guy is the equivalent of a demon, he's like Hades, holding the keys to the underworld...the underworld being the source
 
falk...with the rogue programs in this sequel..i can't wait for the rogue programs in the next movie...crazy...
 
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