" The Legend Of Tarzan" vs "Black Panther"

[white avenger]

Maybe someone here can help me understand this. "The Legend Of Tarzan," featuring the brainchild of the great Edgar Rice Burroughs, is considered racist because it is the story of an English lord raised by apes in Africa who is superior to all the other men, primarily native Africans, but also several Europeans. "Black Panther" is the story of an African king raised in a technologically advanced nation who is superior to all the other men, primarily native Africans, but also several Europeans.

Why is Tarzan racist, and Black Panther is not? Isn't that a double standard?

 

[Blaze]

Because Tarzan is white. Tarzan hits like 5 different racist tropes. From the white savior, to the white man in power, to colonialism. None of those things apply to Black Panther because he is actually African and black. Tarzan is just another story where the white man is better than the black men.

I get that Tarzan is a product of its time, but it's still racist to me. Sometimes two story with similarities can send a VERY different message. Here, having the character be black or white does matter.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Tarzan follows a tradition of stories about a white dude travelling to a savage place and coming in touch with his savage side and combining it with his civilised side and saving all the coloured savages. This is a colonial idea. The white race would civilise the world. At the same time, they were fascinated by the perceived savagery of the cultures they colonised.

It is all very stupid and I don't get why anyone thought it was a good idea to dig up the Tarzan story again. It is an historical artefact that does not lend itself to reinterpretation.

 

[thetopher]

Having seen the Black Panther movie I have to say that its just racism of a different kind; sort of black ethno-nationism instead of all the 'white savior' tropes of the pulps. The Tarzan movies have a naivety to them that this Marvel offering does not; in fact it wants to present itself as racially aware of some modern political theories.

In Black Panthar' he Kingdom of Wakanda as depicted is just...not a very nice place; there's is all this tech/magic to be found but that hasn't modernized the society in any political or social way; it seems to insinuate that without the 'evils of colonialism' these things like Democracy would never have materialized naturally in Africa (since one plot point is that Wakanda was never invaded by a colonial power).

In Wakanda he power structure is still incredibly primitive; trial by combat complete is an actual way people can gain the throne (???) and overall there seems to be a complete lack of democracy. Also women cannot hold true positions of political power- BP even states this at one point.
It's very backward/insular and inward looking- the Kingdom has walls to keep intruders out; which Donald Trump would approve of I'm sure.
There is a futurist-modern city but also lots of poverty in rural/tribal areas; the Kingdom seems to have little or no social care.

Plus there was one scene where a bunch of black actors actually make (I kid you not) chimp noises. This is done to 'shout down' the one white 'good' character who is- in the way of things- treated as no more than a side-kick.

So Tarzan and BP are BOTH (presumably) inadvertently racist in the way they choose to tell a story; but only BP's faults are overlooked and go un-scrutinized; that's the only double standard I see.

For the record I really enjoyed Black Panther; its a quality Marvel movie, but it is in no way deserving of its incredibly high movie scores on RT and such; its a good movie, but it has flaws in execution and actual content that shouldn't be glossed over because- overall- it has become highly politicized.

 

[Mr Trick]

Having seen the Black Panther movie I have to say that its just racism of a different kind; sort of black ethno-nationism instead of all the 'white savior' tropes of the pulps. The Tarzan movies have a naivety to them that this Marvel offering does not; in fact it wants to present itself as racially aware of some modern political theories.

In Black Panthar' he Kingdom of Wakanda as depicted is just...not a very nice place; there's is all this tech/magic to be found but that hasn't modernized the society in any political or social way; it seems to insinuate that without the 'evils of colonialism' these things like Democracy would never have materialized naturally in Africa (since one plot point is that Wakanda was never invaded by a colonial power).

In Wakanda he power structure is still incredibly primitive; trial by combat complete is an actual way people can gain the throne (???) and overall there seems to be a complete lack of democracy. Also women cannot hold true positions of political power- BP even states this at one point.
It's very backward/insular and inward looking- the Kingdom has walls to keep intruders out; which Donald Trump would approve of I'm sure.
There is a futurist-modern city but also lots of poverty in rural/tribal areas; the Kingdom seems to have little or no social care.

Plus there was one scene where a bunch of black actors actually make (I kid you not) chimp noises. This is done to 'shout down' the one white 'good' character who is- in the way of things- treated as no more than a side-kick.

So Tarzan and BP are BOTH (presumably) inadvertently racist in the way they choose to tell a story; but only BP's faults are overlooked and go un-scrutinized; that's the only double standard I see.

For the record I really enjoyed Black Panther; its a quality Marvel movie, but it is in no way deserving of its incredibly high movie scores on RT and such; its a good movie, but it has flaws in execution and actual content that shouldn't be glossed over because- overall- it has become highly politicized.

I disagree I think BP just depicts a very realistic world in such a Africa country. Over there the enquality and divide between rich and poor is even greater than in Western countries. There fore you end up with greater corruption. I admire the film for dealing with such conflicts. I didn't think it was racist in the least.

 

[thetopher]

I disagree I think BP just depicts a very realistic world in such a Africa country. Over there the enquality and divide between rich and poor is even greater than in Western countries.

So you think that without colonialism then African countries would still be so backward in terms of power structures? Like; no democracy, walled borders, very little women's lib and a simple 'might makes right/only the strong shall rule' claims to kingship?
I disagree strongly.

 

[white avenger]

Plus there was one scene where a bunch of black actors actually make (I kid you not) chimp noises.

Technically, they were gorilla sounds, because that tribe's totem was the gorilla, not the black panther (the leader of that clan was referred to as either "Ape Man" or "Gorilla Man" in the comics) but I do agree, if anything in any Tarzan movie could be in any way considered racist, having supposedly civilized men barking like apes for any reason other than a football rally would be hard NOT be considered offensive.

Burroughs was a white man, writing for a predominantly white male audience, reflecting the views of the early 20th Century. His goal, I think, was to entertain his audience, not to advance any racial agenda. If we try too hard put our modern day values on his work, we miss its true purpose, which was to tell a great fantasy story.

Neither Tarzan's Africa, with it's dozens of lost colonies, and impossible flora and fauna (he actually had man eating plants and dinosaurs in various isolated places) nor T'achalla's Wakanda, with its isolated, super tech society are in ant way realistic, and either or both can be seen as offensive to anyone who cares to look for a reason to be offended. It's just a case of narration having little or nothing in common with reality.

 

[thetopher]

Technically, they were gorilla sounds, because that tribe's totem was the gorilla, not the black panther (the leader of that clan was referred to as either "Ape Man" or "Gorilla Man" in the comics) but I do agree, if anything in any Tarzan movie could be in any way considered racist, having supposedly civilized men barking like apes for any reason other than a football rally would be hard NOT be considered offensive.

You're right, The villain in the comics was 'Man-Ape' or 'White Gorilla' (to contrast with 'Black Panther' I guess) so I suppose it could've be worse (but at least that would've been unintentional racism by writers trying to emulate the comics) if he'd dressed like in the comic.
It's black tribesmen hooting down one of the few white men in the movie so its two types of racist at once really.

Again I'll re-iterate that I really enjoyed the film, but we gotta hold it to the same standards as other films that depict Africa; so if Tarzan is racist instead of just being a movie set in Africa then BP is also racist.

Burroughs was a white man, writing for a predominantly white male audience, reflecting the views of the early 20th Century. His goal, I think, was to entertain his audience, not to advance any racial agenda.

Exactly, the racism simply comes from wanting to explore an 'exotic place' and from ignorance; I tend to be more forgiving of that than some writers trying to ham-fistedly enforce a racial agenda and messing it up.

 

[white avenger]

Exactly, the racism simply comes from wanting to explore an 'exotic place' and from ignorance; I tend to be more forgiving of that than some writers trying to ham-fistedly enforce a racial agenda and messing it up.

A bit off topic, but Burroughs inhabited his world of Barsoom with red, green, black, and white races, and the dominate ones were the red and green, while both the white and the black were, on the whole, depicted as evil. Maybe he was actually making a statement against racism back in 1912, and no one even noticed.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

Of course Tarzan was racist. It was just another "great white saviour" tale. Little white English boy raised by apes. Managed not to be eaten. Becomes greater than everyone else. Oh please!

Actually, the majority of films from that time were jaw-droppingly racist in their depiction of black people. Remember the original King Kong? All those black extras tramping around in the jungle, waving spears and torches? Just terrible.

I haven't seen Black Panther, but I've read reviews and seen clips of it. It appears to be another entertaining (though over-blown) Marvel film. Is it racist? No. But I also think there's a certain, um, demographic that might be annoyed by the Afro-centric theme of Black Panther.