The Most Troubling Thing About Willow in "Flooded"

[RipperGilesFan]

To me most troubling about Willow in this episode was not just the fact she threatened Giles (which already is a big no-no in my book)but the fact that when it didn't work, she just as easily fell back into the role of sweet (talking) Willow at the drop of a hat.

That really made me sit back more and think ; wow lady, who is the real you? sweet Willow or arrogant, nasty Willow ?

 

[funsmiley]

Season 6 showed a darker side to willow from the beginning not just when she went all veiny and wicked.
After she preformed the spell to bring buffy back I think magic was taking over her personality a bit. I have ALWAYS agreed with what giles said even though he does call her a "rank, arrogant amateur". I think that season willow really wasn't herself and I get the impression she only really thought of herself though I don't think she realised she was doing it.

I think Willows real personality is that sweet girl we all knew from the very beginning but the magic changed her a lot but when she comes out of it in season 7 she pretty much goes back to normal. You have to remember the magic became like a drug and willow became addicted, so in that scene I think it's the addiction talking.

When willow is fighting buffy when she's all veiny and stuff she tells buffy how she was picked on and was the geek at high school and how she was more powerful then any of them combined. One thing that told me about willow was she wanted power and people to feel how she felt back then.

Small and fragile.
Giles was the only one brave enough to stand up to her to her face and she didn't like it because she liked the feeling of power and knowing what she could do. The consequence didn't exsist to her then and giles reminded her that there are always consequences, and that wasn't what she wanted to hear.

 

[Zauberei]

The moment I realised that Willow was no longer sweet, innocent and harmlessly bookish was the EXT scene when she slaughtered a Bambi. 😱

 

[Robb Stark]

I thought that was a really cool scene. I've always thought the "Willow is addicted to magic. Did you here me!? ADDICTED!!" was too on the nose. I didn't mind the metaphor, and I did find it interesting, but they just scream it at you for most of that season. It didn't have the subtlety that a lot of the other Buffy-metaphors did for tough stuff in real life.

But that scene was really powerful, and it gave the first real hints (well, except for slaughtering a deer and puking up a snake) that she changing. Really changing. Her threatening him and then flipping right back trying to be fake-nice was a little unsettling, especially with the Willow we've always seen. And I liked that Giles saw it, when no one else did, and that he called her on it. Giles had always been the "adult" of the group, but we didn't really see him exercise his authority like that too often. It was a little surprising when you first see it actually. Great, great scene.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I think Season 6 showed us that Willow had a lot of anger and resentment inside her that had been repressed. Look at how she talked to her friends when he became Dark Willow.. The things that came out of her mouth didn't just pop into her head; she had obviously had these thoughts before and just never voiced them aloud. I think that's way I can't stand Willow past Season 5... She became such a shell of the Willow I loved from the beginning that I couldn't stand to look at her or listen to her anymore.

 

[Evil Angelus 95]

As what many have posted above, Willow was already starting to get more and more addicted to magic, and it was already showing in that scene. Giles didn't know the full extent of how deeply she was into it at that point, so when he spoke his mind, she didn't like how it made her feel, and she reacted accordingly.

 

[Tome]

I think that it really showed that - as Britt said -Willow had a lot of pent up resentment; she was simply tired of being treated like a subordinate. So she had a moment of arrogance, reminding Giles that she WAS indeed powerful, before calming down.

 

[Riley's Way]

I think Season 6 showed us that Willow had a lot of anger and resentment inside her that had been repressed. Look at how she talked to her friends when he became Dark Willow.. The things that came out of her mouth didn't just pop into her head; she had obviously had these thoughts before and just never voiced them aloud. I think that's way I can't stand Willow past Season 5... She became such a shell of the Willow I loved from the beginning that I couldn't stand to look at her or listen to her anymore.

So much for unconditional love! lol I actually started loving Willow even more after she turned dark, it showed us a different side of her, she wasn't just a silly insecure girl, she wasn't evil just a human being, and if you love someone you have to love their dark side also, cause we all have one.

 

[Pike]

If you've ever meet anyone with a horrible addiction problem- they become lost inside their addiction. People and loved ones around you are secondary. If Willow was Dark Willow, or just 'having some fun' Willow she was consumed by magic. She pretty much took a back seat to the addiction who was in control the whole season.

 

[BuffyElevated]

So much for unconditional love! lol I actually started loving Willow even more after she turned dark, it showed us a different side of her, she wasn't just a silly insecure girl, she wasn't evil just a human being, and if you love someone you have to love their dark side also, cause we all have one.

Maybe this is true... In that case, I guess I never really did love Willow, because I truly can't stand her past Season 5. Once the "magic addiction" storyline started, she just changed way too much from the person she started out as. I'm all for character development in a series, but I felt like the Willow we started with was completely ruined.

 

[VisionGirl]

That is a scene that demonstrates how scary she can be, how manipulative, even without getting veiny.

Giles is spot-on of course, but it always bothers me a little, because he could've been mentoring her with the magic stuff from the beginning. Of course Slayers need a Watcher (so the Council thinks), but everybody with potential power needs a mentor. Instead Giles and Oz disregard Willow & her magic, and Buffy uses it when she needs it. She didn't find the support she needed in the Wicca group either. I wish Jenny Calendar hadn't died, I could see the two of them work together. I know that Giles had a lot on his plate and I don't want to blame him, but if someone had taken an interest, or even directed her to someone who could've helped her. Maybe Dark Willow would never have happened.

 

[SlayerFest]

To me most troubling about Willow in this episode was not just the fact she threatened Giles (which already is a big no-no in my book)but the fact that when it didn't work, she just as easily fell back into the role of sweet (talking) Willow at the drop of a hat.

That really made me sit back more and think ; wow lady, who is the real you? sweet Willow or arrogant, nasty Willow ?

Willow was my favorite character when I was about 11 until I was maybe 13 or 14 and then I just kind of grew to hate her for a while. I hate that no one really calls her on her crap. I mean she killed a guy and they all joke about it, yet when Anya grants a wish (a deadly one, granted) it's time for her to die. Willow just seemed to go back to being sweet ol' Wil and yeah occasionally they'd have her growl at some poor victim when she'd use magic or warn Kennedy that she was oh so dangerous *eyeroll* but that seemed like a cop-out to me. It was almost as if she never flayed a man alive. Yes he was a misogynistic jerk, but still. Ugh sometimes when I think too hard about this show I get really ticked off! I will never forgive you for killing Tara, Joss!

Just kidding Dark Willow is so much fun to watch (although I do really love Tara).

Rant over.

---------- Post added at 01:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 AM ----------

When willow is fighting buffy when she's all veiny and stuff she tells buffy how she was picked on and was the geek at high school and how she was more powerful then any of them combined. One thing that told me about willow was she wanted power and people to feel how she felt back then.

Small and fragile.
Giles was the only one brave enough to stand up to her to her face and she didn't like it because she liked the feeling of power and knowing what she could do. The consequence didn't exsist to her then and giles reminded her that there are always consequences, and that wasn't what she wanted to hear.

Alright I fibbed, not done. This always really ticked me off too...why is she so insecure? I can't stand it!!! She is smart, attractive, and has great friends yet she felt as if she needed magic to be special and that scene in Smashed always depresses the hell out of me. Yet I like it and I appreciate it because how lame and unrealistic would it be if she didn't feel insecure? She was picked on all the time. Sometimes I question things and then I answer said questions in my own post. I apologize it's 1am.

 

[VisionGirl]

[MENTION=11753]Fredikins[/MENTION], well if its any comfort to you, I think the comics (especially seeing Future Willow in the Time Of Your Life arc) show that there are very serious consequences to Willow's actions. I won't spoil it for you if you haven't read it, but lets just say that her darkness really never goes away.

 

[BlessedLunatic]

That is a scene that demonstrates how scary she can be, how manipulative, even without getting veiny.

Giles is spot-on of course, but it always bothers me a little, because he could've been mentoring her with the magic stuff from the beginning. Of course Slayers need a Watcher (so the Council thinks), but everybody with potential power needs a mentor. Instead Giles and Oz disregard Willow & her magic, and Buffy uses it when she needs it. She didn't find the support she needed in the Wicca group either. I wish Jenny Calendar hadn't died, I could see the two of them work together. I know that Giles had a lot on his plate and I don't want to blame him, but if someone had taken an interest, or even directed her to someone who could've helped her. Maybe Dark Willow would never have happened.

Yes, all of this!

What really bothered me was that, other than occasionally giving her disapproving looks and slight warnings when she was first getting into witchcraft, and other than this one time scolding her about what she'd done and what she was getting involved in...he never tried to relate it to himself at all. They all knew about his past, it should've been something he could talk to her about, explain to her, from personal experience, why the path toward dark magic was such a bad idea. I believe he himself dealt with an addiction to the power of magic, for not entirely dissimilar reasons to Willow's. He wanted to get away, wanted to prove himself. Willow seems to take all his warnings and dissapprovals as a challenge - believing that he doesn't think she's good enough. He's seen the amount of innate ability and power that Willow has, and I think it frightens him, and he reacted emotionally to what she'd done. I'm surprised he didn't yell more, to be honest.

But yeah, it bothers me that he never tried to sit her down and explain what had happened to himself, never tried to use personal experience to relate to her. She may not have listened, but I think it could've potentially made it more real to her than just an occasional glare or generic warning.

 

[WallflowerBitca]

Honestly, I think Willow needed everything that occurred. Xander was forced to grow up when he made a life for himself. Giles was already a grown up. Buffy was forced to grow up the instant she was made the slayer, and things only got harder after her mother died. Dawn was forced to grow up when she became the Key and Anya was forced to learn to be a human being, to create a whole identity for herself. Willow never faced any of that sort of adversity - this was just her rite of passage, as everyone else had. However hers was darker and more dangerous - she 'grew up' years after the rest of them, simply because everyone already considered her grown up. Like Anya said, it's the good, quiet, smart ones that fall the hardest when the time comes.

 

[OpenYourEyes]

I agree completely with you, Wallflower Bitca!
Actually that's what I wanted to say as well: To me this whole season wasn't about Willow's addiction particularly. It was about Willow growing up and becoming an adult. Something she didn't go through up til that point. She had such a low opinion of herself, that she drifted off into a major addiction, that finally was the ultimate key to her growing up.
I believe everyone always thought of her as completely stable and adult, because she's so smart, when in reality she never actually developed any further from that shy girl of season one.
Season 6 was necessary for Willow's character, because she realized that no external source will ever replace her true strength and qualities. Nothing from outside will ever let her truly become the woman she actually is.
And that woman is powerful - not a shy girl who always wants to please everyone, but someone who can stand up for herself and is still able to love unconditionally.
That's why, after season 6 Willow finally earned real respect.

 

[tec]

Willow has one of the best character arcs ever how she grows and evolves is something alot of others shows need to take note

Snaping at Giles like that is something S1 Willow would never do she is becomeing her own person and defending her actions. Cos lets face it. She did bring Buffy back at great risk to herself she may have not known Buffy was content up in her heavenly demention. But thats not where she needed to be anyway Earth needs it's hero and Willow made sure it got her

So to me the real bad guy is Giles this time a weak arragent amature would have never have succeded where Willow did.

Defender of all things Willow

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

That is a scene that demonstrates how scary she can be, how manipulative, even without getting veiny.

Giles is spot-on of course, but it always bothers me a little, because he could've been mentoring her with the magic stuff from the beginning. Of course Slayers need a Watcher (so the Council thinks), but everybody with potential power needs a mentor. Instead Giles and Oz disregard Willow & her magic, and Buffy uses it when she needs it. She didn't find the support she needed in the Wicca group either. I wish Jenny Calendar hadn't died, I could see the two of them work together. I know that Giles had a lot on his plate and I don't want to blame him, but if someone had taken an interest, or even directed her to someone who could've helped her. Maybe Dark Willow would never have happened.

Wait what? Oz warned Willow about the magic by relating it to his lycanthropy and Giles actually hid some of the harder magic stuff he felt Willow wasn't ready for (said in Season 3). Giles and Oz were always cautious about Willow's magic use and showed concern frequently. Tara was the one who was practicing magic with Willow probably on a daily basis until Willow surpassed Tara and that's when she started balking about it. In fact, Tara had been with Willow for a good year and a half before she even mentioned Willow using too much magic and she only put it in the context of herself not being needed by Willow anymore because Willow was getting so good so far (and then it lapsed into some weird sexuality argument). Even after this argument, Tara still went along with a BIG spell that only contradicted her earlier argument.

So I'd place the blame on Tara as opposed to Giles and Oz who were concerned from early on.

 

[Robb Stark]

Wait what? Oz warned Willow about the magic by relating it to his lycanthropy and Giles actually hid some of the harder magic stuff he felt Willow wasn't ready for (said in Season 3). Giles and Oz were always cautious about Willow's magic use and showed concern frequently. Tara was the one who was practicing magic with Willow probably on a daily basis until Willow surpassed Tara and that's when she started balking about it. In fact, Tara had been with Willow for a good year and a half before she even mentioned Willow using too much magic and she only put it in the context of herself not being needed by Willow anymore because Willow was getting so good so far (and then it lapsed into some weird sexuality argument). Even after this argument, Tara still went along with a BIG spell that only contradicted her earlier argument.

So I'd place the blame on Tara as opposed to Giles and Oz who were concerned from early on.

I think part of the problem is that the producers of the show, and Joss echoes this in his commentary, radically changed the metaphor of what magic was supposed to represent.

Magic in S1-3 wasn't shown, at all, to be even remotely addictive. It was used as a tool for Willow and Buffy basically, and as a way for Willow grow and become more self-confident. By S4 it was a metaphor for love and sexuality as Tara became introduced into the show, and that's shown extremely clearly in "Restless". Then the metaphor changed, very gradually in S5 and then all of a sudden in S6. I don't often complain about Joss' use of metaphor, typically they are really, really well done, but it felt like this was really on the nose.

I mean, think about it this way: In S7 Willow is going to magic support groups, just like alcoholics and drug addicts do. Giles and Oz are a little wary of the level of magic Willow is practicing, sure, but they don't ever try and really stop her. Tara full on encourages her to keep going until S6. So if magic is this powerfully addictive thing, why didn't Giles, Oz, Tara or anyone else really try and stop her from getting in too deep?

 

[OpenYourEyes]

So if magic is this powerfully addictive thing, why didn't Giles, Oz, Tara or anyone else really try and stop her from getting in too deep?

Because it's not about the magic - it's about something called responsibility!
You don't keep every person from drinking alcohol, just because there are support groups for it as it is potentially addictive and can turn you into an alcoholic.
Same thing with magic