The not black and white Mayor

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First things first. Joss Whedon is definitely not about black and white charakters. Thats for sure. (I like that!) But i am still wondering about the Mayor. He is a bad guy, but on the other hand he is talking like he is a real nice people person. Ok, he is politician, but the way he cares about Faith… He just snaps out of nowhere, when she is in trouble. He is for here a father figure, thats crystal clear. But on the other hand, she seems to be the daughter he never had? Also he is talking about his long gone wife, like he is the husband of the year.

Oh man, i just dont now what to think about that guy. What do you think (or better feel?).

P.S.

The mayors actor playes amazing. Its always a pleasue to watch him acting so ambivalent back and forth. That grin, oh man...
 
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Puffy said:
First things first. Joss Whedon is definitely not about black and white charakters. Thats for sure. (I like that!) But i am still wondering about the Mayor. He is a bad guy, but on the other hand he is talking like he is a real nice people person. Ok, he is politician, but the way he cares about Faith… He just snaps out of nowhere, when she is in trouble. He is for here a father figure, thats crystal clear. But on the other hand, she seems to be the daughter he never had? Also he is talking about his long gone wife, like he is the husband of the year.

Oh man, i just dont now what to think about that guy. What do you think (or better feel?).

P.S.

The mayors actor playes amazing. Its always a pleasue to watch him acting so ambivalent back and forth. That grin, oh man...
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Great post!🙂 You've just hit on why I think Whedon is such a great writer and why the Mayor is personally my favourite big bad.

Whedon writes most of his central characters with an equal amount of good and bad qualites, or certainly he allows the viewer to project their on take on the character. The same way as in how Faith is seen as either a victim of class who had very little choice but to become loner ad strike out, or as someone who just made excuses and was naturally bad, or too lazy to fight for a better life. The Mayor feels like a more human Villain. He is laid back, has a good dry sense of homour, is charming, but also has firm rooted beliefs and great inner strengths, but read the other way you can also twist that and see it as being cold and sinister (besides the bad things which the characters does). I personally really got connected to the relationship with him and Faith. Besides the battle with Buffy and co. If you put that aside then on the surface then I can see how the Mayor really did care for Faith and how there was a basis for a strong relationship there which might have put her on the right path.
 
Great Feedback. 😉

Your point of view adds a lot more depth to the charakter of the mayor.
 
If i'm not in a x/r-rated villain mood, the Mayor is absolutely my favorite villain. I actually wanted to see him, Faith and Angelus win at one point. (After realizing how poorly the Scoobies treated Faith.) But then i saw the great S3 ending battle and the end of human Mayor Wilkins the 3'rd and I was like, "Awww, noo. Come back funny bad guy".
But to your point, ya the Mayor is a bad guy to me, but I'd work for him. Having him as a father figure didn't look to be all to bad.
 
I like the mayor, I thought he was good big bad, only wish we got a bit more of him. I also like his father/daughter relationship with Faith. I think his human traits are what made him interesting. It make him more likable and so you just never know how far he's going to take it. Not really sure why he wanted to become a big demon snake though, there should have been a clearer motive. With the vampires in the previous seasons, you can just say well they are already demons so it makes sense if they want to kill Buffy and bring about the apocolypse. I guess cause he has no soul that kind of makes him more easily drawn to the evil, but why the big snake demon? Why! We will never know. I don't think I answered your question but those are just my thoughts on the mayor.
 
I don't think there's an awful lot of white when it comes to The Mayor. I'd liken him to Angelus in many ways. Angelus clearly enjoyed his evil and that could give him a certain charm and it's the same with The Mayor. I think with The Mayor it's mostly about power. He enjoys being in control and better than everyone else. That's my take on him wanting to become an Old One. He wants to be able to do and kill as he wishes.

So although he appears pleasant enough most of the time, he's never actually interested in doing anything good. There's no conflict. He wants to Ascend for his own benefit and will kill anyone in the way.

I think the relationship with Faith is interesting. My guess is that he really enjoyed having power over a slayer. After that he probably took a liking to Faith's sadistic streak and general willingness to kill for him. Again kind of like how Angelus enjoyed moulding Drusilla and Spike.
 
The Bronze said:
I don't think there's an awful lot of white when it comes to The Mayor. I'd liken him to Angelus in many ways. Angelus clearly enjoyed his evil and that could give him a certain charm and it's the same with The Mayor. I think with The Mayor it's mostly about power. He enjoys being in control and better than everyone else. That's my take on him wanting to become an Old One. He wants to be able to do and kill as he wishes.

So although he appears pleasant enough most of the time, he's never actually interested in doing anything good. There's no conflict. He wants to Ascend for his own benefit and will kill anyone in the way.

I think the relationship with Faith is interesting. My guess is that he really enjoyed having power over a slayer. After that he probably took a liking to Faith's sadistic streak and general willingness to kill for him. Again kind of like how Angelus enjoyed moulding Drusilla and Spike.
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I agree with all except the last part, I do think there is some honest affection there certainly on his part, maybe even on her part.

I think it is the Mayor's human qualities (on the surface at least) which makes him a more interesting big bad, and its why the character can be read either way. Great performance, great character.
 
All the pro and cons in the posts show me that the character of the mayor is well done complex. There is something in it for everbody. 😉
 
What I like about the mayor is his advice to people (including Faith) is what you would have seen on an episode of "Leave It to Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" from the 1950's. This is a demon who worries about the language his followers use around children. Don't jump on the bed (said to Faith) as if he was really interested in the people around him becoming better people. He seems a lot like modern political candidates - full of old-time virtues and nostalgia while secretly being demons.
 
Ethan Reigns said:
What I like about the mayor is his advice to people (including Faith) is what you would have seen on an episode of "Leave It to Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" from the 1950's. This is a demon who worries about the language his followers use around children. Don't jump on the bed (said to Faith) as if he was really interested in the people around him becoming better people. He seems a lot like modern political candidates - full of old-time virtues and nostalgia while secretly being demons.
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Good point. One of the things I really like about the character is his sense of values. Even if the whole rule the world idea is mis-guided some of his core values actually do make sense.

On a different note does did anyone actually think that there was a romantic nature to his relationship with Faith? And if so what do you think of that?
 
I am 100% sure that his relationship with Faith was not a romantic one.
"A father couldnt be any prouder" he said in one episode. I guess she was the daughter he never had. His perfekt right hand. Even in his true demon form. When he saw the knife in Buffys hand, he just snaped out like he did bevor, when its came to his Faith in trouble.
 
I remember watching a behind the scenes thing about the wardrobe and fashion of BtVS and Joss said "used car salesman" for the Mayor's look and styling in clothes - they said they wanted him to look wholesome American, warm and friendly. So I guess they wanted him to come across likeable in not only his manner and personality, but the way he looks.

He definitely was likeable. It's what made him such a good (lol) big bad. I felt really underwhelmed by his "true form". It felt like such an anti-climax.
 
Mr Trick said:
I do think there is some honest affection there certainly on his part, maybe even on her part.
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I think there's affection there on both sides. I just think The Mayor's affection towards Faith is more similar to the love between vampires. They can love and have feelings and so on but it's different than what humans share, that's confirmed by every vampire that gets a soul at some stage. He's genuinely upset when she's in hospital but his affection is based on unpleasant things like her willingness to help him kill people and such like.

From Faith's side she saw him as a kind of father figure. He showed her attention, praised her, bought her presents and generally took care of her. She definitely had affection for him.

I never saw anything remotely romantic or sexual between. The Mayor struck me as asexual. Faith was never shy about telling a guy if she fancied them. She didn't say or do anything to suggest she was interested so I don't think there was anything like that going on.
 
GwenRaiden said:
I remember watching a behind the scenes thing about the wardrobe and fashion of BtVS and Joss said "used car salesman" for the Mayor's look and styling in clothes - they said they wanted him to look wholesome American, warm and friendly. So I guess they wanted him to come across likeable in not only his manner and personality, but the way he looks.

He definitely was likeable. It's what made him such a good (lol) big bad. I felt really underwhelmed by his "true form". It felt like such an anti-climax.
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That might be because of the dodgy creature CGI? Despite that I did love how that whole thing played out, like the twist of him doing the speech at graduation and then the school bending together to fight.

The Bronze said:
I think there's affection there on both sides. I just think The Mayor's affection towards Faith is more similar to the love between vampires. They can love and have feelings and so on but it's different than what humans share, that's confirmed by every vampire that gets a soul at some stage. He's genuinely upset when she's in hospital but his affection is based on unpleasant things like her willingness to help him kill people and such like.

From Faith's side she saw him as a kind of father figure. He showed her attention, praised her, bought her presents and generally took care of her. She definitely had affection for him.

I never saw anything remotely romantic or sexual between. The Mayor struck me as asexual. Faith was never shy about telling a guy if she fancied them. She didn't say or do anything to suggest she was interested so I don't think there was anything like that going on.
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No I think it was a bit more than that myself. He felt like a crucial part of her life and in a way like their relationship was special. I don't think it was just a professional thing.
 
The Mayor had a little grey in him way before Faith came along. Remember that twice before well-timed earthquakes had disrupted end of the world plots back in the thirties. The Master's attempt to resurrect the Old Ones and later the Satanist church on Kingman's bluff that was buried. One thwarted attempt would've been fortutous but two? That's intent- the Mayor actually saving the world (albeit for selfish reasons). Add to that him taking out Balthazar (a thoughly unpleasent demon) for close to a hundred years and that's a few good deeds right there.

I think his affection for Faith was utterly genuine, a love that a Father has for his daughter. The Mayor had been alone for a long time- since the death of his wife (who he seemed to genuinly love)- and longed for a close, familial connection. He was friendly with Mr. Trick but there wasn't any real depth there- he didn't care that Faith had killed the guy.
Compare that with his later reaction to Faith going missing and then turning up in the hospital- true, powerful emotion, fear/anxiety and then real anger towards Buffy and Angel at the hospital.
That is love- twisted though it is- as is the Mayor's desire to protect Faith after he is gone.
 
Two people who are total opposites, both looking for something, and find it in each other. So nice.

I have a couple of questions about the Mayor, though:
What do you think he meant when he said that if Faith fails him again "replacing Mr. Trick was hard enough?"
Why was everyone so afraid of the Mayor to begin with? Even Mr. Trick seemed a little intimidated.
 
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Puffy said:
(Wilkins) is politician,

He is for here a father figure, that's crystal clear. But on the other hand, (Faith) seems to be the daughter he never had?

Also he is talking about his long gone wife, like he is the husband of the year.
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"He's a politician" pretty much sums up Wilkins' personality perfectly. The typical image of the politician is to appear to be totally concerned with and dedicated to the welfare of his constituents while in actuality pursuing his won hidden, and usually self serving, agenda. At times, that agenda requires actually doing something that might be considered "good," but it is done in order to advance his own evil plans.

As for Wilkins' relationship with Faith, I've always thought that he was written in such a way as to be a dark parallel to Giles, just as Faith was written to be Buffy's dark counterpart. Each Slayer was given the father that they needed and actually didn't have. Buffy and Giles being the yin to Faith and Wilkins' yang.

Wilkins referrals to his long dead wife might simply be part of his politician persona, since the average voter is more likely to vote for a family man, even a widower, than a bachelor.
 
Samuel Reyes said:
Two people who are total opposites, both looking for something, and find it in each other. So nice.

I have a couple of questions about the Mayor, though:
What do you think he meant when he said that if Faith fails him again "replacing Mr. Trick was hard enough?"
Why was everyone so afraid of the Mayor to begin with? Even Mr. Trick seemed a little intimidated.
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Actually don't remember that line. Which episode? It sounds like a theat to me I will be honest, he might have meant that if she failed again she might have ended up dead, or that he would have to choose someone else for the mission, but unlikely. It is the way they weeve in those darker moments from the Mayor which impress me and his dry but commanding delivery is so effective. Not sure about your second question, maybe he had enough infleunce and knew enough people than no one was really going to mess with him. I'm assuming he was rewarding Trick very well and that he believed in the Mayor's plan.
 
It was back in 'Enemies' when the two of them were discussing getting the Books Of Ascension- they hadn't yet bonded past employer and employee. The Moyor's comment was mostly warning but implied threat- byt he end of the episode the two of them had grown closer thanks to Faith's fairly dark actions on his behalf.
 
thetopher said:
It was back in 'Enemies' when the two of them were discussing getting the Books Of Ascension- they hadn't yet bonded past employer and employee. The Moyor's comment was mostly warning but implied threat- byt he end of the episode the two of them had grown closer thanks to Faith's fairly dark actions on his behalf.
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Thanks, yeah that does make sense, at first it was more of a business relationship I guess.
 
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