the old ones and higher powers one and the same

[celestialarrow]

alright after watching "shiny happy people" a question arose. i dont know if anyone has made this thread before but here goes. in that episode jasmine said "In the beginning, before the time of man, great beings walked the earth. Untold power emanated from all quarters"”the seeds of what would come to be known as good and evil. But the shadows stretched and became darkness, and the malevolent among us grew stronger. The earth became a demon realm. Those of us who had the will to resist left this place, but we remained ever-watchful. But then something new emerged from deep inside the earth"”neither demon, nor god. And it seemed, for a time, that through this new race, a balance might be restored." alright from what she said it made me think that higher powers are considered as gods as jasmine stated and that the old ones where once higher powers whom fell to the darkness within them. i mean if you think about it, it makes sense. illyria was said to have the powers of a god she even spoke she was god king of the primordium. tell me what you think about my theory.

 

[Kemy]

You have to remember that Jasmine said and did anything she thought would gather her more followers, whether what she said was the truth or not. More than likely not, she was a true con artist.

That being said the Old Ones were physical beings who walked the Earth, literally, large Demons 5 times taller than a person, weilding weapons in the multiple limbs. Illyria was shown in her true form to be such a Demon, huge and armoured.

They were all slaughtered by each other and later the lower Demons and their bodies/remains sealed away in the sarcophagi in the Deeper Well.

The Powers That Be and the Senior Partners were physical beings at this point, Illyria met the Wolf, the Ram and the Hart when they were just Demons like any other.

During the many millions of years after the Old Ones died out, TPTB and Senior Partners shed their physical form and ascended to the higher plane. The One Olds at this point were dust, long forgotten.

So no they aren't the same. In fact the non-corporeal beings we know of were lower on the evolutionary chain than the Old Ones, and only evolved past them after their demise.

 

[Allycat]

Although your theory is interesting, Kemy, it is not necessarily true. Yes, Illyria indicated that she knew the Wolf, the Ram, and the Hart, but I don't recall her saying anything about Higher Beings and/or the Powers that Be, which aren't necessarily the same. Likewise, it's only ever been suggested, but never confirmed, that the Wolf, the Ram, and the Hart are indeed the same as the Senior Partners.

 

[celestialarrow]

You have to remember that Jasmine said and did anything she thought would gather her more followers, whether what she said was the truth or not. More than likely not, she was a true con artist.

That being said the Old Ones were physical beings who walked the Earth, literally, large Demons 5 times taller than a person, weilding weapons in the multiple limbs. Illyria was shown in her true form to be such a Demon, huge and armoured.

They were all slaughtered by each other and later the lower Demons and their bodies/remains sealed away in the sarcophagi in the Deeper Well.

The Powers That Be and the Senior Partners were physical beings at this point, Illyria met the Wolf, the Ram and the Hart when they were just Demons like any other.

During the many millions of years after the Old Ones died out, TPTB and Senior Partners shed their physical form and ascended to the higher plane. The One Olds at this point were dust, long forgotten.

So no they aren't the same. In fact the non-corporeal beings we know of were lower on the evolutionary chain than the Old Ones, and only evolved past them after their demise.

yes jasmine was a trickster but all of what she said wasn't a lie. i mean yes she did manipulate alot of people and events in order to get to our plane. but that doesn't mean she lied about her origins i mean why would she have to. and you still haven't disproven my theory while im going by what jasmine actually said your speculating. jasmine did indeed said that as the malevolent grew within at that point all of which were considered gods this dimension became a demon realm. and that makes me think those as she stated who were able to resist the darkness became pure demons or old ones. and just because illyria met the wolf, ram, and hart while they were physical doesn't mean anything. because jasmine had already said she and the others had left what she didn't say was when she left not ascended that she shed her physical form because if what you say is true why didn't cordy. i mean all throughout season four it mentions how she became a higher being in paradise with the other powers. what it does say is she wasnt physical. so my theory could be just as good as any.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I think that we need to realise Jasmine didn't have any reason to lie.

It wasn't what she was saying that had people mesmerised, it was who she was, a fallen Power that Be.
She could have told everyone that she was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and wanted to Slaughter Mankind just for a laugh and everyone would have been under her influence.

 

[Kemy]

Yup. Ok, fine. Jasmine was terribly sweet and never intended anyone to come to harm, at all, anywhere, in any way. Wolf, Ram and Hart got sick of being bad and went off and had a picnic and where never heard from again leaving the big bad sky pixies to come in and call themsevles senior partners and powers that be. Happy now?

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

Yup. Ok, fine. Jasmine was terribly sweet and never intended anyone to come to harm, at all, anywhere, in any way. Wolf, Ram and Hart got sick of being bad and went off and had a picnic and where never heard from again leaving the big bad sky pixies to come in and call themsevles senior partners and powers that be. Happy now?

Woah really no need for that.

Your first post was full of assumption, doesn't mean your entirely incorrect but you haven't the word of Joss so its not canon either.

Geez, I thought I could be a sarcastic twit.