The Problem With Dawn

[LadyLavinia]

I am not really seeing much difference between my examples and say Dawn's behaviour in Real Me. I don't hate Dawn or anything, she just behaves irrationally sometimes.

Everyone behaves irrationally. It's called . . . human nature.


I'm reading all of these complaints about Dawn and it occurs to me that many fans either wanted her to behave like a perfect little teenager or they didn't want her to exist. It seems - especially with BUFFY fans that the only people who are allowed to have flaws are Buffy, the Scoobies, Angel and Spike. That's it. Everyone else has to be some cardboard, one-dimensional character of perfection. My question is . . . why?

Where Buffy is an achiever, Dawn can never be one. Dawn is a brutal realist, and her position mandates that. Nothing wrong about that. I feel that's to be expected. In fact, she's wise to do so.

Exactly how is Buffy an achiever and Dawn isn't?

 

[zobothehobo]

Everyone behaves irrationally. It's called . . . human nature.


I'm reading all of these complaints about Dawn and it occurs to me that many fans either wanted her to behave like a perfect little teenager or they didn't want her to exist. It seems - especially with BUFFY fans that the only people who are allowed to have flaws are Buffy, the Scoobies, Angel and Spike. That's it. Everyone else has to be some cardboard, one-dimensional character of perfection. My question is . . . why?

I don't expect Dawn to be perfect. Just not a whiny, self centered ingrate.. In season 5, I can sorta deal with her whinyness... in season 6 she made me want to punch her so hard every single episode. I mean her level of gratefulness, or lack thereof, was infuriating. In season 7, she was a lot better... but every time I looked at her, I saw seasons 5 and 6, mainly 6, and it just made me not want to give her a chance. I don't want her to be perfect, just less like an annoying little brat.

 

[caitaintdead]

Does anyone else think Abigail Breslin would have made an awesome Dawn Summers? Much more age appropriate and she's adorable.

 

[LadyLavinia]

I don't expect Dawn to be perfect. Just not a whiny, self centered ingrate.

You've just described the typical adolescent. And you've just proven my point that many fans wanted Dawn to be perfect or near perfect.

By the way, you've just described Buffy, Willow, Xander, Anya, Spike and even Angel in less than broody moments.

 

[zobothehobo]

You've just described the typical adolescent. And you've just proven my point that many fans wanted Dawn to be perfect or near perfect.

By the way, you've just described Buffy, Willow, Xander, Anya, Spike and even Angel in less than broody moments.

Sure every teenager has their moments of being whiny self centered ingrates... but not like Dawn. I didn't want Dawn to be perfect, I love the imperfections of the Scoobies... it's what makes the show real. But Dawn was annoying. She rarely had good moments... everyone else had their base line of good likable people with their moments of whiny annoyingness. Dawn had her base line of whiny annoyingness and her moments of a good likable person. I really resent being told what I think and feel. I don't want Dawn to be perfect and I don't dislike her because she's not. I dislike her because she's annoying and reminds me of my own sister way too much. At times she's manipulative and honestly, she doesn't show any appreciation for anything anyone does for her ever. She always wants more. It's quite frankly sometimes sickening. My sister's like that... she always needs more nothing's ever enough and "thank you" isn't in her vocabulary. Everything always has to be about her... Dawn's just like that and it bothers me beyond belief.

 

[Taake]

You've just described the typical adolescent.

Who's describing a one-dimensional stereotype cardboard figure now?

Though there are often key characteristics to an age group not all teenagers are like Dawn. It would have been perfectly possible to write her quite differently without making her 'perfect' (whatever that entails. I don't think there are any 'perfect' characters on the show).

 

[LadyLavinia]

Who's describing a one-dimensional stereotype cardboard figure now?

Okay. Let me rephrase myself. Dawn was acting like the typical human being. She wasn't the only character who has whined and complained in a self-involved manner and threw temper tantrums. Most of other the characters have also done the same . . . including Buffy.

 

[Hale Caesar]

Aside from being the most annoying character on BtVS, Michelle Trachtenberg is easily the worst actor on either BtVS ot AtS. She has no comedic timing and since she is surrounded with so many other talented actors she just looks out of place. I believe this is the worst part about Dawn.

 

[LadyLavinia]

Aside from being the most annoying character on BtVS, Michelle Trachtenberg is easily the worst actor on either BtVS ot AtS. She has no comedic timing and since she is surrounded with so many other talented actors she just looks out of place. I believe this is the worst part about Dawn.

I don't agree. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. But I sure as hell don't agree.

Or maybe the real problem with Dawn is that she reminds a lot of fans of themselves . . . only they don't want to admit it.

 

[Hale Caesar]

I don't agree. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. But I sure as hell don't agree.

Or maybe the real problem with Dawn is that she reminds a lot of fans of themselves . . . only they don't want to admit it.

I respect your opinion, but normal teenagers and adults don't complain and throw temper tantrums, Dawn wasn't a small child, and at that stage of her life she should have found more constructive ways to handle her frustration or anger. Everyone knows it's normal for teenagers to have problems, but Dawn complained for basically two seasons and by season 7 people were fed up with her, no matter how much stronger Joss tried to make Dawn there was no way for fans to like her.

And I still stand by the fact that since Michelle Trachtenberg can't act it only made Dawn less likable

 

[LadyLavinia]

I respect your opinion, but normal teenagers and adults don't complain and throw temper tantrums, Dawn wasn't a small child, and at that stage of her life she should have found more constructive ways to handle her frustration or anger.

Between the ages of 14 and 16? I don't know about that. And I have seen a good number of "normal" teenagers and adults throw temper tantrums. Was a well-behaved Dawn the only way for you to accept her as a character? Because Buffy and the other Scoobies were no better. At least not in my eyes.

Why is it that questionable behavior by Buffy, the Scoobies, Angel and Spike are tolerated; but questionable behavior by other supporting characters are not?

 

[The Unspoken]

I thought MT's acting was great, especially considering she was probably half everyone's age.

As for Dawn, she was willing to die in 'The Gift', just like Buffy was in 'Prophecy Girl'. Except that Dawn was 2 years younger...or 15 years younger, depending on how you see it. And wasn't she being (criminally) neglected in season 6, i.e. left alone at home while Buffy was banging Spike and Willow was doing magic!crack?

Also, why should Buffy's sacrifices as a Slayer deter her from getting kicked out in 'Empty Places'? If she's wrong, she's wrong.

 

[Hale Caesar]

Between the ages of 14 and 16? I don't know about that. And I have seen a good number of "normal" teenagers and adults throw temper tantrums.

It's not normal for teenagers and adults to throw temper tantrums, if you have seen any they need to see psychiatrist...quickly. It's normal for teens/adults to get mad and want to fight but to whine, cry, complain and blame everyone else is not

Was a well-behaved Dawn the only way for you to accept her as a character?

Personally, the only way I would have accepted the character was if she didn't complain all of season 6. She added nothing to the story, she was supposed to be Buffy's family connection, but I wouldn't have minded if her friends were that connection since they were all so close that they were practically family anyways

Because Buffy and the other Scoobies were no better. At least not in my eyes.

I honestly don't think the Scoobies were ever as annoying as Dawn. Even if they did whine and complain it would have been for one or two episodes, unlike Dawn who did it for 2 whole seasons, i'm 99.99% sure none of the Scoobies did it for that long. If you can give me some examples maybe I can see what your talking about

Why is it that questionable behavior by Buffy, the Scoobies, Angel and Spike are tolerated; but questionable behavior by other supporting characters are not?

Yea, examples would help me better understand. It's really hard for me to compare any character to Dawn

 

[Icarium]

Aside from being the most annoying character on BtVS, Michelle Trachtenberg is easily the worst actor on either BtVS ot AtS.

Nope, that would be Tom Lenk, IMO. He managed to make his character even more dimensional and boring that Andrew was on paper. Quite an achievement, if of the negative kind. 🙂

It's not normal for teenagers and adults to throw temper tantrums, if you have seen any they need to see psychiatrist...quickly. It's normal for teens/adults to get mad and want to fight but to whine, cry, complain and blame everyone else is not

I think it's quite normal in the situation Dawn is in S6 - she is a fifteen year old who has the existential crisis to end all such crises (she is literally a construct with no real past), feels guilty for her sister's death, mourns her mother, is abandoned by her father and all the other parental figures in her life and is surrounded by people who seem determined to ruin themselves as quick as possible (in S6). What bugs me is that this is never really explored and Dawn's outbursts seem to get screen time only to make Buffy feel bad some more. And that Dawn's miraculously just fine in S7, even if she was very close to Tara and for my money should have been even more depressed that season.

 

[Seeing Red]

Once I started re-watching the 5 season I started liking her more, but I don't like how she does not act like a regular teen. I mean do you know any teen that wants to spend that much time with their family? Also were are her friends? She hangs out with 1 friend mabey once a month, when you are 15 all you want to do is be around your friends or be by yourself. Just comparing the way people my age and mysself acts to how Dawn acts.