The Prom - Was Joyce right?

  • Thread starter Thread starter frankie
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I gotta agree with a lot of you guys and say Joyce was in the right. Although Angel and Buffy's love was strong, he was holding her back from getting a "normal" boyfriend. I do think it was done in the wrong way though. Dropping her just weeks before the apocalypse is a good way for her to want to give up. I am figuring if Buffy knew her mother spoke to Angel it would of caused a fight between the two. Joyce could of lost her daughter is what I am saying.
 
I think Joyce only wanted to help Buffy, but I do think that she was a little out of line. Although, if both Buffy and Angel both wanted to stay in a relationship, Joyce could have done nothing to stop that. It was ultimately Angel's decision
 
Buffy's mom was totally right!
How could she be wrong? How could Angel and Buffy be together? I mean really, just think about it: Buffy wanted a normal life.
Well first off without the pleasure factor, if she "wanted" kids there would only be adoption. ALTHOUGH Angel "can" (haha) make babies (weird term there) but if they did it naturally "innocent episode style" Well he'd go all evil.
So what future is there? They can't be physically close without him losing it. And then all that's left is a mental relationship that would be dull. (Ever see Sheldon and Amy on Big bang theory. That would be the relationship)

I mean I suppose your saying "Awh, but she went behind Buffy's back and Buffy should have made the decision." When Buffy and Angel breakup in the same episode, it was on Angels terms and Buffy was desperate to hang onto him. Joyce was totally right saying Buffy's clouded when it comes to Angel.

Also Joyce didn't directly say "Breakup" she literally said: "Can you provide Buffy with a future". And honestly, could he? And thankfully he figured out he couldn't. Hell, even Mayor Wilkins knew the relationship wasn't healthy.

Although I suppose him breaking up with Buffy would have been better for her and less mentally painful like in Graduation part 1.

Although funny thought: Couldn't Angel not go to the place in Africa Spike went to and ask for a "permanent" soul or even better: Become Human but like with the strength of Riley Finn or like Gunn strength etc?
 
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I don't have too much to say on the subject, 1. I think it was right for Joyce to talk to Angel.

2. I don't think it was right for Joyce to do it without Buffy's knowledge.
 
castnoshadow said:
I don't have too much to say on the subject, 1. I think it was right for Joyce to talk to Angel.

2. I don't think it was right for Joyce to do it without Buffy's knowledge.
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Sure, it mightn't have been right but wouldn't Buffy not stop Joyce and pull a "Mom!" sort of bitch fit. Buffy was way too clouded about Angel. But then again, I suppose Buffy was 18 so I can see where your coming from as a Buffy POV.
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It was really in Angel season 1 episode 8 when Buffy truly matured. Angel became human and he decided to turn back the clock to become a vampire and Buffy understood. She didn't fight it too much even though that was probably the highlight ever of their relationship. (which she'd forget)
 
GeekOfComedy said:
Sure, it mightn't have been right but wouldn't Buffy not stop Joyce and pull a "Mom!" sort of bitch fit. Buffy was way too clouded about Angel. But then again, I suppose Buffy was 18 so I can see where your coming from as a Buffy POV.
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It was really in Angel season 1 episode 8 when Buffy truly matured. Angel became human and he decided to turn back the clock to become a vampire and Buffy understood. She didn't fight it too much even though that was probably the highlight ever of their relationship. (which she'd forget)
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It's still unfair, Buffy, and any adult deserves all the knowledge.
 
MinwaraYana said:
She's definitely right. She's her mother. "Joyce is wrong and should have stayed out of her daughter's business" is impossible. Buffy is the Slayer, yeah. She's mature than her age, yeah. But in Joyce's eyes, she's always Buffy - her only daughter. And I believe if Buffy finds out about Joyce telling Angel this, she won't get upset at all. She will be grateful that her mom looked out for her.
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Buffy would have been pissed if she'd found out. However, it was the right thing to do. She didn't say, "Break up with her...or else!" she just told him that he'd have to do what was right for Buffy because her judgment was clouded. He did the right thing, I mean everything did work out haha
 
castnoshadow said:
It's still unfair, Buffy, and any adult deserves all the knowledge.
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So it should have been right for Joyce to tell Buffy "I visited Angel today and I told him to make sure you two think about the future".
You do know that Joyce didn't say "Angel, I know you care about her, break it off".
Angel has yet to get the dream of Buffy in a wedding dress before bursting into flames.
I can understand where your coming from though with she was an adult and she should make decisions, but my counter point is I felt in that episode timeline, she wasn't emotionally ready to think like an Adult as she was completely clouded in decisions with Angel. Again referring to how she handled the way the two broke up and trying to hang on to him.

Anyone who disagrees with Joyce HAS and I mean HAS to Disagree that Buffy was right to keep Angel a secret from the Scooby Gang. They were completely unaware until Xander spots the two and the truth comes out. If keeping secrets is a bad thing, well Buffy did the worse, especially on Giles because Angel did torture him etc.
 
GeekOfComedy said:
So it should have been right for Joyce to tell Buffy "I visited Angel today and I told him to make sure you two think about the future".
You do know that Joyce didn't say "Angel, I know you care about her, break it off".
Angel has yet to get the dream of Buffy in a wedding dress before bursting into flames.
I can understand where your coming from though with she was an adult and she should make decisions, but my counter point is I felt in that episode timeline, she wasn't emotionally ready to think like an Adult as she was completely clouded in decisions with Angel. Again referring to how she handled the way the two broke up and trying to hang on to him.

Anyone who disagrees with Joyce HAS and I mean HAS to Disagree that Buffy was right to keep Angel a secret from the Scooby Gang. They were completely unaware until Xander spots the two and the truth comes out. If keeping secrets is a bad thing, well Buffy did the worse, especially on Giles because Angel did torture him etc.
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It's entirely subjective though, I think Buffy was emotionally ready to think like an adult, and yes, she had faults and made mistakes, but in general I think she was mature.

And no one "has" to disagree with anything 🙂
 
castnoshadow said:
It's entirely subjective though, I think Buffy was emotionally ready to think like an adult, and yes, she had faults and made mistakes, but in general I think she was mature.

And no one "has" to disagree with anything 🙂
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That came out a little stronger than intended :/

The point is when Buffy kept Angel a secret was almost the same scenario. In both cases BOTH parties from a POV should have been told the truth or Not been told the truth.
 
GeekOfComedy said:
That came out a little stronger than intended :/

The point is when Buffy kept Angel a secret was almost the same scenario. In both cases BOTH parties from a POV should have been told the truth or Not been told the truth.
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The difference is, by not telling the others about Angel, Buffy wasn't taking a choice away from them or making a decision for them. It made no real impact on their lives.
 
castnoshadow said:
The difference is, by not telling the others about Angel, Buffy wasn't taking a choice away from them or making a decision for them. It made no real impact on their lives.
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It would have and did impact them emotionally. It was the same with Joyce, would Angel and Buffy splitting up hurt them physically. No, just emotionally.
 
I can understand why Joyce went to speak to Angel and I get that she did it because she was concerned, but in the end did it really make a difference. Joyce's concern was that Buffy was dating a vampire who would never age and wouldnt be able to give her children. Yea, she was also concerned that if her daughter gave her boyfriend a moment of true happiness he'd murder hundreds of people. But after Angel left, Buffy then started dating Riley, which didnt last, she then turned to Spike. What was the difference between her dating Angel and Spike, other than she's able to have sex with Spike.
 
Joyce never really trusted Angel. For two reasons, one he was older and two, she's seen him turn evil.

Buffy might have been eighteen, but I believe Joyce thought was doing the right thing and was just looking out for her daughter.
 
Let's be real for a minute. Buffy's not your average girl. You can't compare this situation to an average parent sticking their nose into their average kids business. It's a bit more complicated then that. That being said, I think Joyce had this distorted view of a future for Buffy that just wasn't plausible, what with her being a slayer and all. I mean, generally slayers don't even make it past adolescence. I get where she's coming from. She's a mom. I am too so I can relate. You want the best future for your daughter but unfortunately, Buffy's not that girl. That's the fact. She'll probably continue to fight till she dies, and relatively young too. So if not Angel, then who better? Call me crazy but I just don't think the normal boys are cutting it. She's not a normal girl so why would they. Riley? Cause that ended in rainbow ponies. Spike?... Alright, I actually loved her and Spike together so I'm not even going to go there, anyways. Point being, I can see Joyce's point completely. For the storyline sake, both BtVS and Angel, I support the decision to leave and go to LA. (Otherwise we would never have had the awkwardly steamy "Waiting in Wings" or the wildly comedic "Smile Time" 🙂 ) For the sake of the topic, I don't really think it was as urgent and necessary as it was made out to be.
 
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