The Prom - Was Joyce right?

[frankie]

I'm currently doing a re-watch of Buffy with my friend Sarah, who is new to the Buffy - Verse. After watching the prom our views were divided on Joyce' talk with Angel. Joyce basically points out that angel is holding back Buffy and that he needs to think about their future.

My view is that she was right to do what she did. That Buffy was a young girl clouded by love who was not thinking of the future. I don't think she was the full reason for the break-up but she did play a part and I think she was right to. She's was looking out for her daughter and felt it was a potentially dangerous relationship that would cause Buffy heart-break.

Sarah's view was that she had no right to do it. That Buffy in being the slayer is already old beyond her years and deals with more " life issues" than Joyce ever has. Buffy is mature enough to deal with "love" and "the future" because by dealing with a role that everyday could be her last means Buffy hopes for and thinks about the future more than anyone - basically Joyce should have backed off.

So your opinion people. Was Joyce right, was she just being a good mother or was Joyce wrong and should have stayed out of her daughter's business? What's your view on the Joyce/Angel talk?

 

[MinwaraYana]

She's definitely right. She's her mother. "Joyce is wrong and should have stayed out of her daughter's business" is impossible. Buffy is the Slayer, yeah. She's mature than her age, yeah. But in Joyce's eyes, she's always Buffy - her only daughter. And I believe if Buffy finds out about Joyce telling Angel this, she won't get upset at all. She will be grateful that her mom looked out for her.

 

[Professor Walsh]

While I think Buffy would be upset, and rightfully so, I also think that Joyce did the right thing. She was a minor, and while she had dealt with unfathomable problems as the slayer, when relationships are concerned she was still unexperienced. When I also think that Buffy would be in her right to be upset, that lies in the child/parent dynamics. It is the parent's role to provide boundaries and the teenager's role to break away from them.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

No. It wasn't. In my eyes, she was wrong. In the past year, Buffy proved Joyce she's a mature and big girl. I'm not sure Joyce saw that, because every mother wants to keep her little girl down. But Buffy sure tried to show her.

What Joyce did, she pushed them over the edge, and they fell down, really hard on the ground. They should take little steps, by their own. The thing is, Buffy never found out about that, so we don't know what her reaction would be.

 

[Flannen]

While I understand and even, to some extent agree, with Joyce's concerns I do not agree with how she went about raising them. I would be mortified if my parents did that to me, but I know that they never would. That was not the right thing to do, to go behind her back, deciding for yourself that your eighteen, which over here is a full blown, do you what you like adult, daughter, is not only too immature and 'loved up' to make her own decisions but too immature to speak about it with her. That's why I think it was the wrong thing to do.

At eighteen years old I went off to live my by myself, Buffy had lived by herself before that and taken care of herself. I know that some people end up becoming so clouded by their emotions that they can't make a good decision for themselves but I certainly don't think that Buffy is one of those people, especially not as the Slayer. Joyce's first move should never have been to go behind Buffy's back, without even thinking of talking to her about her first, which unless I've forgotten (I have just had a nap) I don't think she did.

 

[Professor Walsh]

You know, I had completely forgotten that she was eighteen at that point. That makes me change my mind.

 

[charmedones193]

I Think That Joyce Had No Right To Get Into Buffy's Love Life.

 

[MinwaraYana]

Doing things to protect the one you love is always right in my book.

 

[zobothehobo]

At first when I saw this episode, I agreed with your friend Sarah... that's probably because I've dealt with my own mother sticking her nose where it doesn't belong for a very long time. But as time when on, I realized she was right. It didn't take too long for me to come to the conclusion, while Joyce's talk with Angel could be seen as trying to take control of her daughter's love life... because she wasn't in the relationship, she could see things Buffy and Angel couldn't. Because Angel was older, he could see more of it... maybe the outlines... but he needed Joyce to tell him what it was he was seeing.
Buffy had been through a lot and had made a lot of tough choices being the slayer. She did have a lot of life experience... but she had no relationship experience. And she was blinded by love to what she really needed. Part of me thinks it was Buffy's mistake to make... but Joyce was just doing what she thought was best for her daughter (which turns out probably was the best thing for her daughter).

 

[Misty]

I do think Joyce was right, because she knew that her daughter had no future with Angel because he was a vampire and Buffy was still in high school getting ready for her future.

 

[VisionGirl]

First of all, she turned 18 in Helpless, so was no longer a minor by the time of Joyce's conversation with Angel. But I'm conflicted- as a parent I understand the concern, but I think it was wrong of her to go behind her back. And whether she was right or wrong, I was pissed as hell at her, & Angel, & Wesley- all for making decisions for someone who has shown she was quite capable of making her own decisions about her life. Giles is the only one who did not do so, he never did.

It's funny, I'm more sympathetic to Joyce when she told Buffy not to come back in Becoming than I am with her in this episode.

 

[Karol]

I agree with Joyce. I think her speech helped Angel to decide... after all, leaving was the right thing to do. Angel and Buffy were going nowhere with their relationship, just un-focusing Buffy from the important stuff...

 

[Misty]

^^ She was 18, but she was still in school and it was before she graduated. But anyway, like Karol said, Joyce was right because she telling Angel the truth and he knew that.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Doing things to protect the one you love is always right in my book.

Protecting from what? Buffy would be in danger with or without Angel around.

 

[VisionGirl]

She wasn't trying to protect her- she wanted her to have a normal life. Hell, Buffy wanted a normal life. Maybe Wesley was the correct one- she never can have a normal life, and anything else is a delusion. Nonetheless, it was her decision to make, not anybody else's.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

She wasn't trying to protect her- she wanted her to have a normal life. Hell, Buffy wanted a normal life. Maybe Wesley was the correct one- she never can have a normal life, and anything else is a delusion. Nonetheless, it was her decision to make, not anybody else's.

I agree. I could accept the fact that she wanted a normal life for her daughter, but still, Angel wasn't the one who was in the way. Like Buffy said to him "You're the one freaky thing in my freaky world that still makes sense to me."

 

[StarSlayer]

She's definitely right. She's her mother. "Joyce is wrong and should have stayed out of her daughter's business" is impossible. Buffy is the Slayer, yeah. She's mature than her age, yeah. But in Joyce's eyes, she's always Buffy - her only daughter. And I believe if Buffy finds out about Joyce telling Angel this, she won't get upset at all. She will be grateful that her mom looked out for her.

I agree. No matter how old Buffy actually is (16, 18, 21, 30, etc), Joyce is still Buffy's mother and she was watching out for her only daughter. At 25, my mom still tries to do things she thinks are in my best interests. I may get upset for her sticking her nose in my business, lol, but I know her intentions are good. I think Buffy would be upset for Joyce talking to Angel behind her back, but I think Buffy would also know Joyce loves her and only wants what's best for her. In the end, I think Joyce was right, regardless of how old Buffy is. It's just a mother watching out for her daughter.

 

[VisionGirl]

I agree. No matter how old Buffy actually is (16, 18, 21, 30, etc), Joyce is still Buffy's mother and she was watching out for her only daughter. At 25, my mom still tries to do things she thinks are in my best interests. I may get upset for her sticking her nose in my business, lol, but I know her intentions are good. I think Buffy would be upset for Joyce talking to Angel behind her back, but I think Buffy would also know Joyce loves her and only wants what's best for her. In the end, I think Joyce was right, regardless of how old Buffy is. It's just a mother watching out for her daughter.

I'm 41 and my mother still tells me what to do with my life LOL. But then again, I'm not the Chosen One. 😉

 

[Marisa]

When you really think about it Joyce was right in a wrong way. She is a mother and of course she is going to speak her opinion. Should she have done it at that moment or the way she did no. Like I said though she is a mother and she felt it was her place. I think in the end Angel would have left Buffy no matter what. He had to many signs Joyce, The mayor and even some of the scoobies saying stuff along the lines of this. So I think with or without Joyce saying something it would have been done. Do I think she was wrong yes in the sense of maybe she should have went about things in a different way, but she is Buffy's mother so she had her heart in the right place.

 

[fly on the wall]

Was Joyce right to be concerned?

Yes, of course. Buffy was her daughter and although clearly capable of taking care of herself, Joyce wanted to protect her.

Was she right to go behind Buffy's back and talk to Angel?

Nope. Buffy was an adult. A young adult, but one that had already seen and dealt with a lot more than most. Joyce's whole "Buffy isn't thinking about the future" bit bugs me, just because it shows, yet again, that Joyce is jaded and doesn't understand what being a Slayer means. Buffy, in all likelihood, doesn't have a future. She will be killed, probably sooner rather than later, and so in my opinion deserves all the happiness she can get in the meantime. This is just yet another example of Joyce trying to treat Buffy like a normal girl, which is understandable, but wrong.