The Return of Mutant Enemy?

[Edmund Blackadder]

I think people have taken away the thing he most enjoyed doing and working on, and that was Firefly. And to him (and all his fans) that was the worst thing he had to go through on a tv series. He hated the idea of his favorite show (I think he has called it his baby in some interviews) taken from him and he couldn't tell anymore stories about the characters he grew to love. That's why he pushed so hard on getting a Firefly movie. And when it bombed in the Box Office, well, that crushed him even more. And Firefly was an awesome show, and to Joss and all his Firefly Fans it really wasn't just good, but extraordinary. So personally, I think the guy has sweated enough.

I also think the fact that he didn't get to make the WW movie was a low-blow. He spent 18 months on that scirpt. And he's said that those are 18 months he doesn't have anymore.

Joss Whedon has taken his fans for granted.
It sometimes feels like he simply used Buffy and Angel as a means to an end.
I don't mind that, Buffy and Angel have been great but I don't feel sorry for him when the big stuff goes wrong.
Plus, I doubt he feels too bad about Firefly and Serenity.
Firefly failed as a TV show but that gave him a movie which by the end wasn't that big of a flop.
Has he ever thought about doing straight to DVD Films...oh yeah, he has and never fo,llowed through leaving us all wanting.

 

[Jone]

"Plus, I doubt he feels too bad about Firefly and Serenity.
Firefly failed as a TV show but that gave him a movie which by the end wasn't that big of a flop.
Has he ever thought about doing straight to DVD Films...oh yeah, he has and never fo,llowed through leaving us all wanting."-Bored of the Dead

I don't think he has gotten over Firefly being cancelled. That was his favorite show and then it got taken from him by stupid FOX. And he was very happy that his (mini-)series got to have a film. And you're right, with DVD sales, the movie didn't do that bad. However, he wanted more than just a movie. He wanted to continue with the series, with the stories, which is most likely never going to happen. And he has said that he would love to work with the cast of Firefly again.

I know he has promised a couple straight to DVD films but he's a busy man. He spent 18 months on the WW script and then when he got that taken from him he doesn't want to make the same mistake. So now he has to carefully choose what he wants to accomplish in TV land and on the big screens (or small screens seeing on how we're talking about straight to DVD films).

I'm kind of mad that he promised a Spike movie (which is never going to happen) but its nice to see he wants to make "Ripper."

 

[nerd4hire]

Joss Whedon has taken his fans for granted.
It sometimes feels like he simply used Buffy and Angel as a means to an end.
I don't mind that, Buffy and Angel have been great but I don't feel sorry for him when the big stuff goes wrong.
Plus, I doubt he feels too bad about Firefly and Serenity.
Firefly failed as a TV show but that gave him a movie which by the end wasn't that big of a flop.
Has he ever thought about doing straight to DVD Films...oh yeah, he has and never fo,llowed through leaving us all wanting.

I'd so like to just mark those comments off to opinion, and just walk past them, but they're just so blatantly, provably false.

He's taken his fans for granted? What hat did you pull that out of?

Joss is famous for his positive connection to his fan base. From the beginning he's posted to fan boards connecting to the fans. He appears at conventions when he doesn't really have to. He does interviews with small, sites, and fanzines other Hollywood types wouldn't talk to.

He cares about the stuff fans care about. Take canon for example. Where something like Doctor Who has perverted canon to the point it doesn't really exist, Joss has stubbornly hung onto the concept offering the fans a canonical relevance to his series. This respects the series, and the fans who attach importance to it. He thinks like fans think.

Just give me a name. Show me any show creator who has shown more overt respect to his fans than Joss and the crew he gathers around him have. Bet you can't do it.

On the DVDs - Tim Minear, Marti Noxon, Amy Acker, and James Marsters have all confirmed his efforts to get those happening were sincere. Joss's claim is in the end the money people wouldn't buck up. Personally I don't have any problem accepting that explanation, and if the money isn't there, it isn't there.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

HIs biggest betrayal was the ending of Buffy.
He neglected the last season of the show(as he did season 4 for Angel) to pursue the show he actually wanted to do.

He felt perfectly able to leave Buffy and hoped we would follow mindlessly to his wankfantasy Firefly.

I don't care who you are, three TV shows at one time is too much to oversee, so rather than finish the show that made his name THEN start Firefly(he knew Buffy was coming to an end for at least him at season 7) he decided to go the other route.

As for the TV Movies, if you read the comments from the execs, they were actually hoping for TVM's. I remember at the time Buffy finished, Fox actually said they would definitely like to talk about TVMs. It seemed their only stipulation was that Whedon was involved.

When the time came around to doing them though, when everything was falling into place for Whedon to do the TVM's he passed them on.

As fans, we know that Greenwalt is very good, but the Fox execs very likely felt this as some kind of snub.

 

[nerd4hire]

I know I wish he had given his full attention to Buffy Season 6 and 7. Does the fact he didn't though, prove a betrayal of, or disrespect for me the fan though? I don't think it does.

First of all does the creator of ideas owe a responsibility to his creative vision. He had these new inspirations. They demanded realization.

Whedon and others in Mutant Enemy have suggested there was a general feeling they'd gone as far as they wanted to with Buffy, and it was time to wrap it up. Apparently Sarah Michelle Gellar felt the same way. At the same time they all had contractual obligations. So what does he do? Does he reject the inspiration of Fray and Firefly, and continue slugging away at Buffy, pulling struggling ideas out of his head when the freshness of ideas, and opportunity to realize is sitting right there in front of him, but elsewhere.

He's gathered a talented group of people around him. He trusted them. He delegated. He still stayed around for the breaking of stories, and stucturing, continuing to make himself available for feedback with the showrunner. Then he followed his own personal inspiration. Is that disrespectful of the fans? Would it have been more respectful to give the series less than he felt he could at that time. He's a guy with a lot of ideas, and his inspiration was elsewhere. At the same time he felt his obligations to the original series were being served.

Was he wrong? Apparently you and me think so. We think Buffy Season 6 and 7 would have been better if he'd given his full commitment to it. Does that show disrespect to the franchise and its fans though? I don't think so. I think the most it shows (assuming were correct) is he made a mistake. He says he doesn't think he did. He says he's content with 6 and 7.

I'm not happy with what he's doing with the upcoming Angel: After the Fall series. He's delegated it to someone outside the sphere of canon Angel. At the same time there's this outcry and demand to discover what happened to Angel after the alley. He's going to show them. Of course it won't be as good as if he'd given the project his full commitment, but is he disrespecting the fans more by not giving them the answers they seek, or giving them an inferior representation of those answers? This question is going to become harder to answer if the Angel thing comes out and it outright sucks. Personally, I'm starting to think there's a good possibility that might happen.

Nevertheless, I still believe the guy is sincere in his commitment to and respect for the fans. He's got a lot of ideas. He gives full commitment to some, and delegates to others. When you sign on with him. That's what you get. He's not disrespecting you just because you don't get what he's doing.

On the DVDs, you're flat out wrong. HERE'S where the story of Joss's desire to do something with the Angel characters begins. Follow it to the present day. Both Joss and the money guys (different faces, but the story remains the same) claim they want to do something. One of them is lying. Tell me which.

 

[Randy Giles]

I think N4H and Bored of the Dead both make good points...overall though I think while Joss is grateful to his fans but every once and a while I feel like he's getting a little stuck up. While I think he's a good writer I can't stand him personally and I don't have any desire to meet him in real life.

But anyway, I hope he can get his two movies greenlit...

And then I hope he reopens Mutant Enemy. I want him to work on new series, definitely - I do want some things within his usual genre, maybe a regular drama and/or comedy. The CW has openly expressed their interest in working with him.

Some DVD movies would be nice.

 

[white avenger]

Old Movie Folks UNITE!!!

OK I would like to try and understand this "older movie watcher" statement you have thrown out there GB.
As a "mature movie watcher" I have developed an instinct on what would be a good movie to watch in a theater with usually a crowd of "younger movie watchers" who usually endlessly chat during the movie, tell you to 'F' off when you politely ask them to be quite, never have the courtesy to turn off that damn cell phone, giggle like pre-pubescent school girls etc.
OR
As a "mature movie watcher" I can enjoy watching a movie in my rec room on my 54" HDTV with the sound level set to a comfortable level (you know the level where my eardrums will not bleed) in the company of the best date a man could ever have...my "mature movie watching" wife.
So please GB do not classify me as a "older movie watcher" just because I have reached a time in my life where the cost of "high end" audio and video equipment is no longer a strain on my bank account. Someday you too will be an "older movie watcher" and will take advantage of what I now enjoy.
Thanks for understanding, LOL.

This old codger agrees 100%! And you can add another thing: simple economics. By the time you add up the price of the tickets, any snacks you might consume, and the rising cost of just getting to the theater, it's cheaper to buy the DVD and watch it at home. Above and beyond that, the DVD's come out only a few months after the theatrical release (I've had some come out while the first run is still playing), so there's no real wait.

 

[Evilyn]

It seems as though the possibilty has yet to be explored that he could bring Mutant Enemy back as an independent comic company, much like DreamWave and Image were before they merged to become IDW. He said he has so many stories to tell, and that would be a great way for him to do it, on an indie level. It's also the perfect way to oversee more than one story at a time, therefore there will be less time in between projects and it won't take him 3 and a half years to tell a story. Plus, I mean look at the movie industry right now, a good percentage of movies that are coming out, are comic based movies. What better way to get your ideas seen by Hollywood than to put down in comic form right now?