The Shanshu Prophecy

[white avenger]

Throughout most of the "Angel" series, we have had Angel hoping to regain his humanity through this prophecy. Assuming that it does truly exist and isn't just some W&H plot, and Angel, or Spike, for that matter, does happen to win it, just how human would you want him to be? Totally human, as in "I Will Remember You" human, or as a human with vampire powers, something similar to the Blade character?

(Keep in mind that this is about the prophecy itself, regardless of who wins it or how they use the resulting humanity, no 'ships, no particular character. Just a definition of exactly what you think that the actual reward would be)

 

[Kean]

Well it has been indicated that Shanshu is forgiveness and that the winner's debt will be paid when/if they recieved it, to me that says that it won't come with superstrenght.

If Angel was to be given Shanshu I think it would be the absolute end of his story. Him being human and having superstrenght is quite frankly, boring. What would be his struggle?

 

[Fusions2]

I agree with Kean I think IF Angel recieves the prophecy he will become 100% human with no vampire powers left. Why be forgiven and still retain some of the burdens that came with being a vampire. It would be like saying your forgiven and have fought for good for a long while but we'll keep you in the loop incase need be. I think once Angel would have recieved his reward it would also mean he would no longer have to fight in the battle between good and evil.

 

[thevikingsgirl]

Totally human, IMO. No special powers. The gift is about humanity, and about not having to save the world anymore. IF it's real. if it is, I do think it's about Angel and not Spike (and anyway, Spike's too cool as a vamp to become human).

 

[dan k]

If the reward was becoming human without any powers than i'd assume Angel wouldn't want that as in "I will remember you" he becomes human and loses his power yet he pleads with the powers to erase what happened. If the prophecy took away his fighting qualities then it wouldn't allow him to fight for redemption which is what he essentially fights for.

 

[Fusions2]

If the reward was becoming human without any powers than i'd assume Angel wouldn't want that as in "I will remember you" he becomes human and loses his power yet he pleads with the powers to erase what happened. If the prophecy took away his fighting qualities then it wouldn't allow him to fight for redemption which is what he essentially fights for.

He only pleaded with TPTB to be a vampire again because he knew if he stayed with Buffy at that time as well he would endanger her. By the end of season 1 Angel and Buffy has started to move on properly and he knew if he received the reward later on it would be worth it. He would have fought on the side of good and redeemed himself and presumably that would happen when good had prevailed over evil. No more big battle.

 

[Kean]

If the reward was becoming human without any powers than i'd assume Angel wouldn't want that as in "I will remember you" he becomes human and loses his power yet he pleads with the powers to erase what happened. If the prophecy took away his fighting qualities then it wouldn't allow him to fight for redemption which is what he essentially fights for.

Shanshu is redemption, if he gets it he will be forgiven and made his amends.

I'm honestly not sure Angel will get the oppertunity to fight as a human. I have this really sinking feeling that if/when he is given Shanshu he will die soon after. Perhaps he will find his true peace then.

Also, ATF

Spoiler

has proven that Angel can quite ably fight as a human. If he can fight a war in Hell as a human I really don't see fighting as a human on earth being an issue anymore.

---------- Post added at 02:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 PM ----------

He only pleaded with TPTB to be a vampire again because he knew if he stayed with Buffy at that time as well he would endanger her. By the end of season 1 Angel and Buffy has started to move on properly and he knew if he received the reward later on it would be worth it. He would have fought on the side of good and redeemed himself and presumably that would happen when good had prevailed over evil. No more big battle.

He didn't even plead to be a vampire, he begged for her life. The PTB told him they only way to undo what had been done was to turn back time and he took it. He asked for a way to save Buffy, not for a way to restore him.

 

[MinwaraYana]

Totally human for me. Angel would be an FBI agent who works with a prosaic forensic anthropologist. Ok, I watch that Bangel vid too much. 😛

Spike would be something like James Bond. 🙂

 

[white avenger]

Totally human for me. Angel would be an FBI agent who works with a prosaic forensic anthropologist. Ok, I watch that Bangel vid too much. 😛

Spike would be something like James Bond. 🙂

Just as long as Spike's like the REAL Bond, Sean Connery, and not like the grubby knock off they have playing the role now)

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I believe that if Angel is evetually awarded the Shanshu it will restore him to his former human self. I always got the idea that that once this is fullfilled, Angel can live out the rest of his days as a human would, and die as a human would. I never got the impression he'd be a "special" human in anyway. As Kean said, it would be deliciously ironic if when Angel was awarded the prophecy, he died soon after. That seems like something Joss would do.

I never liked the idea of Spike getting the prophecy. I was definitely rooting for Angel in "Destiny." I've always gotten the expression that Spike loves being a vampire. The events of "Destiny", while entertaining, always seemed OOC for Spike to me. I think he wanted the Cup of Perpetual Torment just because Angel wanted it so much. I don't think Spike has ever put much thought into what it would be like to be human again. The Shanshu has always been about Angel, as it should be. Spike's desire to become human seemingly out of nowhere was just another one of those things that irritated me. I was like, Come on Spike! Angel and Spike will always have this never-ending competition between each other and will always be fighting over who is better. Spike figured if Angel wanted it so much, so should he. I hate how all the writers are always pinning Spike and Angel against each other, having them want the same things, the same women, the same destiny...ugh.

Sorry, rant over.

 

[Kean]

I believe that if Angel is evetually awarded the Shanshu it will restore him to his former human self. I always got the idea that that once this is fullfilled, Angel can live out the rest of his days as a human would, and die as a human would. I never got the impression he'd be a "special" human in anyway. As Kean said, it would be deliciously ironic if when Angel was awarded the prophecy, he died soon after. That seems like something Joss would do.

I never liked the idea of Spike getting the prophecy. I was definitely rooting for Angel in "Destiny." I've always gotten the expression that Spike loves being a vampire. The events of "Destiny", while entertaining, always seemed OOC for Spike to me. I think he wanted the Cup of Perpetual Torment just because Angel wanted it so much. I don't think Spike has ever put much thought into what it would be like to be human again. The Shanshu has always been about Angel, as it should be. Spike's desire to become human seemingly out of nowhere was just another one of those things that irritated me. I was like, Come on Spike! Angel and Spike will always have this never-ending competition between each other and will always be fighting over who is better. Spike figured if Angel wanted it so much, so should he. I hate how all the writers are always pinning Spike and Angel against each other, having them want the same things, the same women, the same destiny...ugh.

Sorry, rant over.

I agree I don't think he ever wanted it and I don't think it was ever his to want. I think he knew that too but tormenting Angel was too enticing to pass up.

We know it is Angel's prophecy, that has been confirmed. If it wasn't his then his entire reason for being would be erradicated. It's a prophecy, it can't be given up or avoided, they always come true somehow. Just look at Buffy, she died at the hands of the Master but she was revived. Similarly, Master rose but Buffy kicked his ugly arse and then ground his bones to make her bread 😉

I think Angel will be human, what is gona make it interesting is what is the final act(s) that get him there and what happens after.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I think Angel will be human, what is gona make it interesting is what is the final act(s) that get him there and what happens after.

I agree, Kean. For me, what I'll find most interesting is what Angel is willing to do to receive that humanity. At this point, it looks like any sort of evil act is fair game.

 

[Kean]

I agree, Kean. For me, what I'll find most interesting is what Angel is willing to do to receive that humanity. At this point, it looks like any sort of evil act is fair game.

That's supposing that what he is doing is motivated by his desire for Shanshu (which, btw, I cannot express how much I think is untrue). What is happening at the moment has been borne out of something very different and his reasons for doing it (I imagine) are about stopping something happening, not making something happen.

I still feel this is a topic that we cannot comment on just yet simply because we know so little.

 

[white avenger]

Once again. folks, this is just about the prophecy itself and exactly what you expect it to be, whether the recipient will be totally human like Xander or Giles, or will they be more of an enhanced being like Connor or even one of the Slayers.not about who will eventually win it.

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

I hope and expect it to be 100% human!

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I believe that if Angel is evetually awarded the Shanshu it will restore him to his former human self. I always got the idea that that once this is fullfilled, Angel can live out the rest of his days as a human would, and die as a human would. I never got the impression he'd be a "special" human in anyway. As Kean said, it would be deliciously ironic if when Angel was awarded the prophecy, he died soon after. That seems like something Joss would do.

I never liked the idea of Spike getting the prophecy. I was definitely rooting for Angel in "Destiny." I've always gotten the expression that Spike loves being a vampire. The events of "Destiny", while entertaining, always seemed OOC for Spike to me. I think he wanted the Cup of Perpetual Torment just because Angel wanted it so much. I don't think Spike has ever put much thought into what it would be like to be human again. The Shanshu has always been about Angel, as it should be. Spike's desire to become human seemingly out of nowhere was just another one of those things that irritated me. I was like, Come on Spike! Angel and Spike will always have this never-ending competition between each other and will always be fighting over who is better. Spike figured if Angel wanted it so much, so should he. I hate how all the writers are always pinning Spike and Angel against each other, having them want the same things, the same women, the same destiny...ugh.

Sorry, rant over.

From their very first interactions in Buffy s2, I have been incapable of rooting for Angel when he's up against Spike. I love Angel, but I just like Spike so much better that I want him to "win" even when I really DON'T want him to win. I wonder if Spike thought he wanted the prophecy to be about him because it's what he thought he SHOULD want. I do believe he wants to be a good person and a hero, but seeing as how Angel is his Grandsire and that was the route Angel was taking, maybe he was taking his cues from Angel on HOW to reach redemption. Eventually he learns to take his own path.

I wonder if they'll make the prophecy turn Angel human then have something like what happened to Darla, with the syphilis. Like he'll get a month to live then get hit by a bus or something.

 

[white avenger]

***Comments on this post
Kean agrees: All things considered it's amazing that he got as far as 26 without getting syphilis or something else equally nasty***

As you can see, our Adopt-A-Bangel program is moving right along. The blind support for Ol' Broody is slowly beginning to melt away. Congratulations, Miss K! The light at the end of the tunnel beckons!

 

[Eleftheria]

I think whoever wins the prophecy, and I always believe that will be Angel, he is gonna be human. Yeah, like Xander or Giles. No vampire powers. But I think Angel has so much battle/weapon experience and he trains daily so he will be able to stand his ground if he has to...

 

[thevikingsgirl]

I think whoever wins the prophecy, and I always believe that will be Angel, he is gonna be human. Yeah, like Xander or Giles. No vampire powers. But I think Angel has so much battle/weapon experience and he trains daily so he will be able to stand his ground if he has to...

Yeah, look at Gunn. Totally human and a bad@$$. Even Xander did his share of demon fighting and he wasn't exactly trained in hand to hand combat. Angel could definitely hold his own without his vamp powers.

 

[Wesley]

If/When Angel achieves Shanshu I don't see him doing a lot of fighting. The Shanshu will be at the end of the battle, no more fights, no more struggle just life, and that is the point of Shanshu. You're not just human, you're normal.