"The Shape Of Water" Plagiarism?

white avenger

white avenger

white avenger
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I saw this movie several weeks ago, and genuinely enjoyed it. Since then , I have learned that it has been nominated for at least 11 Oscars AND that charges of plagiarism have been filed against it.

What To Know About The 'Shape Of Water' Plagiarism Allegations

The man/fish idea is far from original. It dates back to the mythology several cultures, plus being used previously in several movies. Even Joss used the idea in both "Buffy" (Go Fish) and the "Frey" series. Even the concept of a human falling in love with and/or befriending an aquatic creature is far from uncommon. So, where's the logic of a charge like this?
 
Basically, you can't copyright a story idea. So unless passages were lifted directly from either work, there's little chance of anything coming of this. However, that doesn't make it less annoying - Dan Brown & Repo Men I'm looking at you.
 
Buffy Summers said:
Basically, you can't copyright a story idea.
Click to expand...
It wasn't that the story idea was copied, it was that so much of the plot was copied. Here are a few items that are the same:
  • The main character is a quiet, introverted female custodian who works the graveyard shift in a laboratory.
  • Set in the 1960s during the Cold War, at a laboratory where experiments for military use are taking place
  • The custodian discovers a tank with an aquatic creature who is being experimented on
  • The custodian and the aquatic creature fall in love, a transformative love which enables both of them to be heard
  • She wins his trust by sneaking food into the lab and feeding him.
  • She dances to music on a record with her mop while the creature looks on and their bond grows deeper
  • She is treated in a dehumanizing way by her superiors at the laboratory.
  • She discovers that the scientists who run the lab want to use the creature as a military weapon if they can get him to cooperate but if not, he is to be vivisected for research purposes.
  • She decides to rescue the creature and release him to the sea by sneaking him out of the facility in a laundry cart.
WhisperShapeSame7-1.jpg

Let Me Hear You Whisper
Set in the 1960s, the plot follows a lonely, introverted female custodian at a research facility who falls in love with a captured aquatic creature, a dolphin, who talks only to her. When the creature refuses to cooperate with the scientists’ plan to be used as a military weapon, they decide they will kill it and dissect it. The custodian attempts to help the creature escape to the sea by means of a laundry cart.

The Shape of Water
Set in the 1960s, the plot follows a lonely, introverted female custodian at a research facility who falls in love with a captured aquatic creature who talks only to her. When the creature refuses to cooperate with the scientists’ plan to be used as a military weapon, they decide they will kill it and dissect it. The custodian attempts to help the creature escape to the sea by means of a laundry cart.

Whisper_Shape_same1.jpg

WhisperShape_Same8.jpg

 
ShapeWhisperGridPage1.jpg

WhisperShapeGridPage2.jpg
 
Taake
Taake
Clearly, no significant similarities at all
Could be people just having similar ideas. In history this is known as multiple discovery. There's actually some kind of program music studios use when an album is made to make sure none of the songs are too similar to other songs for this reason. I've actually read about this a while back. I read that Del Toro claims that he'd never even heard of this play. Who knows?
 
There are quite a few shows that seem copied. I think Pocahontas and Avatar, of which this is a summary (I've seen much longer comparisons, this is just the trailer for both):


Harry Potter had more than one predecessor, of which this is but one:

All the ways that "Harry Potter" is exactly like "The Worst Witch"

(That said... other possible influences and analogues which doesn't include those that sued the author for plagiarism--though I have yet to hear of an actual lawsuit that sounded legite to me despite some uncanny similarities.)

I like to tell the story of when a tween girl came to my grandmother's house from California and mavelled at ancient wonders like the rotary phone. She asked what the VCR tapes on I Love Lucy were about, and after a moment's thought I said something like, "Think Hannah Montana, only she and Lilly are older, married women in the 1950s who have to deal with husbands instead of parents, and Lucy only WANTS to be in the show rather than living a double life as a pop star." (I could mention similarities with the 1980s cartoon/toy commercial Jem as well.) And someone sent me this:



ETA: okay, going to have to edit this. The page I get to edit this won't let me (it's a coding rather than content issue) so apologies as I start from scratch and hope I can beat the 15 min mark, sheesh.
 
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thrasherpix said:
There are quite a few shows that seem copied. I think Pocahontas and Avatar, of which this is a summary (I've seen much longer comparisons, this is just the trailer for both):
Harry Potter had more than one predecessor, of which this is but one:

All the ways that "Harry Potter" is exactly like "The Worst Witch"
Click to expand...
I loved The Worst Witch when I was a kid. And yes, there are a lot of similarities between it and Harry Potter.

Avatar is def like Pocahontas but it also draws a lot of parallels to FernGully.

I remember learning in film class that Hollywood only has something like seven original storylines, every movie you see is a variation of one of those storylines. So it's inevitable that certain movies will mirror others.
 
But there is a difference between mirroring another movie and just straight out reusing so much of the plot without change. All of the major plotpoints are identical to it's predecessor. That's not mirroring, that's duplicating.
 
I never watched either show, I just loved the books. I think the original series from the 70s/80s had Tim Curry in it though! I should check it out just for that.
 
How obvious, Tim was practising his lines about him being a sweet transvestite from Transyl - vania!
 
It looks as though Tim was practising how to deliver his lines
and lets face just look at his face, imagine if Hagrid looked like that!


There's hope for Dracula coming out of the cabinet of Dr. Caligari
 
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thrasherpix said:
There are quite a few shows that seem copied. I think Pocahontas and Avatar, of which this is a summary
Click to expand...

I've never seen "Pocahontas," but I've read in several places that "Avatar" was his interpretation of Edgar Rice Burroughs' "A Princess Of Mars." (Ironically, one of the complaints that the movie "John Carter" was a rip off of "Avatar" is the exact opposite, since Burroughs' novel was 100 years old when the movie was released)
 
Mr. Pole said:
No thanks. I still think it's reaching. Hence the post.
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Cameron, himself said that he wanted to make "John Carter Of Mars" when he made "Avatar." The only "reaching" involved was him reaching out for inspiration to a series of books that began in 1912.
 
white avenger said:
Cameron, himself said that he wanted to make "John Carter Of Mars" when he made "Avatar."
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No he didn't, he said he wanted to do a guys flick like it. He said he didn't want to make a girly (or words to that effect) movie. That is far different from your post saying Avatar was his "his interpretation" of it. It was not his interpretation of it. It was his interpretation of cowboys and indians and how the mean white man robbed the indians of their natural resources.
 
Mr. Pole said:
No he didn't, he said he wanted to do a guys flick like it. He said he didn't want to make a girly (or words to that effect) movie. That is far different from your post saying Avatar was his "his interpretation" of it.
Click to expand...

This is his direct quote:

“With ‘Avatar,’ I thought, Forget all these chick flicks and do a classic guys’ adventure movie, something in the Edgar Rice Burroughs mold, like John Carter of Mars—a soldier goes to Mars,”

John Carter Inspired Avatar, not vice versa — let’s set the record straight

That seems pretty much like inspiration and interpretation to me.
 
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