The Slayer made the correct choice

fly on the wall said:
I don't agree that she was suicidal, at all. Where do we get any hint of that before she jumps?
Click to expand...
Not before she jumps but I think most people got it from this in the previous episode:

Buffy #1: I felt it. Glory will beat me.
Buffy #2: And in that second of knowing it, Will...
Buffy #1: I wanted it to happen.
Willow: Why?
Buffy #1: I wanted it over. This is ... all of this ... it's too much for me.
Buffy #2: I just wanted it over.
Buffy #1: If Glory wins ... then Dawn dies.
Buffy #2: And I would grieve. People would feel sorry for me. But it would be over. And I imagined what a relief it would be.
 
Edmund Blackadder said:
Buffy was not leaving the world Slayerless, she was saving the world from unmaginable hell.
Click to expand...
Something she could have done just as easily by pushing Dawn into the portal. Sure, there was still Faith, but she was still depriving the world of a slayer by offing herself when that was NOT the only option.
 
R
randiann
She wouldn't have been Buffy had she done that.
PurplePoof said:
Something she could have done just as easily by pushing Dawn into the portal. Sure, there was still Faith, but she was still depriving the world of a slayer by offing herself when that was NOT the only option.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying then is that Buffy should have murdered an innocent to save the world - she isn't Jack Bauer.
 
Buffy was never the stereotypical definition of a "hero"...she was a flawed character, and sometimes a "hero" has to make a sacrifice for the greater good...if Buffy dying was the ONLY option, it would've been heroic. But it wasn't. And the smile you see on her face before she leaps off the tower indicates she was happy to finally be putting herself to rest. Suicide isn't heroic.
 
PurplePoof said:
Buffy was never the stereotypical definition of a "hero"...she was a flawed character, and sometimes a "hero" has to make a sacrifice for the greater good...
Click to expand...

Which she did. She sacrificed herself to save the world without murdering an innocent girl, it is irrelevent that she is her sister.

PurplePoof said:
if Buffy dying was the ONLY option, it would've been heroic. But it wasn't. And the smile you see on her face before she leaps off the tower indicates she was happy to finally be putting herself to rest. Suicide isn't heroic.
Click to expand...

You're saying that as though it is fact, you can't know what was going through her mind exactly.

I have watched that entire season quite a few times and I get the impression that she has an epiphany of sorts on the top of the tower.

Everything comes together for her, she understands that she is doing the right thing, she is saving the world AND not compromising who she is.

No, suicide isn't heroic,t then I don't view what she did as suicide.
 
Well then that's the difference in our perception, because I see it as entirely suicidal. Buffy certainly wasn't in the wrong for WANTING to kill herself, but she had a duty to the world. And depriving the world of ONE slayer (even if there's another) is still selfish when pushing Dawn in the portal would have achieved the same effect. Dawn may have been an innocent, but so are all the people who likely died without Buffy around in Sunnydale to fight off the beasties.
 
If you believe she wanted to kill herself, which I don't.

How would murdering Dawn have kept us with a Slayer. In season 6 we see that she is willing to pay for what she does when she thinks she has killed Katrina and IF she was responsible for the murderer of her own sister THEN she would have been suicidal.

You can't compare the what ifs with the actuals.

The 'what if' people died opposed to the 'actuals' of murdering Dawn.
 
I think calling it "murder" in this particular instance would be a bit harsh...especially since Dawn would've jumped willingly before Buffy stopped her. And even if Buffy had pushed her, I don't see it as murder if it's for the greater good. It's a sacrifice. And yes, you can compare the what-ifs with the actuals because we know from The Wish what an impact Buffy has and what her absence means for Sunnydale.
 
PurplePoof said:
I think calling it "murder" in this particular instance would be a bit harsh...especially since Dawn would've jumped willingly before Buffy stopped her. And even if Buffy had pushed her, I don't see it as murder if it's for the greater good. It's a sacrifice. And yes, you can compare the what-ifs with the actuals because we know from The Wish what an impact Buffy has and what her absence means for Sunnydale.
Click to expand...

Taking the life of another is murder no matter how you paint it.
I would also think that Buffy would see it as this.
We do but Buffy doesn't.
First of all, Buffy doesn't know what actually happened in the wishverse and secondly Buffy doesn't know what will happen tomorrow.

If the Slayer second guesses every decision she makes because of the effect it might have tomorrow then she begins to question every fight she has.

Buffy couldn't kill Ben even though arguably he would be easier to kill than Dawn, why would she have been able to kill Dawn?
 
Okay, I'll play...is murder ALWAYS unjustified? I don't think so.

The fact Buffy couldn't even kill Ben was one of her character weaknesses...she was just too "good" of a person...and I don't believe that goes well with a sacred duty that requires you kill things.

It's a complicated issue, and what you're saying certainly isn't wrong...it's just not the way I see it.
 
PurplePoof said:
Okay, I'll play...is murder ALWAYS unjustified? I don't think so.

The fact Buffy couldn't even kill Ben was one of her character weaknesses...she was just too "good" of a person...and I don't believe that goes well with a sacred duty that requires you kill things.

It's a complicated issue, and what you're saying certainly isn't wrong...it's just not the way I see it.
Click to expand...

I think I now have a new love on the board!!

Someone to spar against.

I don't actually believe murder is always unjustified BUT then thats not about me, its about Buffy,

Ask the same question to Buffy and then ask her if this situation warrants it AT the end of season 5.

In season 7 she says she could do it so we know she has the ability, but that doesn't mean it is right either.

Also, killing demons and killing humans we are told is different.

Humans have their own laws for human/human crime but the Slayer is the law on Demon/Human crime...even though the only real punishment is execution.
 
But the fact she's still the key to opening a portal between dimensions would indicate that even though she a human, she isn't human. : king :
 
But she acquired and honed that power...it wasn't an intrinsic part of her being...she didn't first exist as a magic ball...
 
PurplePoof said:
But she acquired and honed that power...it wasn't an intrinsic part of her being...she didn't first exist as a magic ball...
Click to expand...

What makes someone human - its a question long discussed on Star Trek thanks to Data.

Dawn is human with a little something extra, something inside her that doesn't mean she isn't human.

Its a little added spice.

I have always seen the key energy to be something placed in Dawn, not something Dawn is.
They took Buffy's blood and made a human to hold the essense of the key.
 
R
Relic
mechanica Karma, mate. :)
A
Angel's vision
Pp certainly would appreciate Dr Who's philosiphy Sp? of anti killing no matter what lol! You argue with him till you are blue he loves it!
AgentX7k said:
Not before she jumps but I think most people got it from this in the previous episode:

Buffy #1: I felt it. Glory will beat me.
Buffy #2: And in that second of knowing it, Will...
Buffy #1: I wanted it to happen.
Willow: Why?
Buffy #1: I wanted it over. This is ... all of this ... it's too much for me.
Buffy #2: I just wanted it over.
Buffy #1: If Glory wins ... then Dawn dies.
Buffy #2: And I would grieve. People would feel sorry for me. But it would be over. And I imagined what a relief it would be.
Click to expand...
Right. But then Willow yells "Snap out of it!" and Buffy wakes up. And she gets up and goes to fight. So I always took that to mean, she wasn't ready to give up.

Of course, exactly what Buffy was thinking on top of that tower will always be a mystery, as none of us were in her head.

I have a question for those who consider it selfish, a suicide, etc....what do you make of her going down to see the Master in S1, then? Was that suicide, or any less heroic? She could have run, she could have moved to Cleveland and fought evil there, but she didn't. She willingly walked to her death. And yes, the situation's a little different in S5, but still..
 
R
Relic
Bravo, though others have suggested this point too. Buffy would jump on a grenade so to speak to save the world, thats why she was chosen. great post.
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
[No message]
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom