The Ten Commandments

[Harley]

The Ten Commandments

Do you think, if the Ten Commandments were re-written to be PC in today's society, that they would change? Would any be thrown out or added?

Do you think society recognizes them as legitimate moral guidelines anymore?

 

[Flannen]

Do you think society recognizes them as legitimate moral guidelines anymore?

I like to think so. Christian, or not, I think they're a very good set of 'laws' to try and abide by, several of them are in fact actual laws within society anyway.

As to any be changed? I don't really know to be honest. I'd say no but there will be many who will disagree with me.

I just think they are a basic set of understandings to encourage people to be 'good people.' And I don't see much wrong with that!

 

[JenniferAlice]

We don't have the Ten Commandments in the UK?

 

[funkyguitarbabe]

Some of them I do agree with...honouring your folks, no murdering, etc., they're pretty good.
But having no other God? How many wars has THAT particular idea caused?

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

They would definitely change today.
I don't think I'm especially badass, but still I have borken most of those commandments...even several times.
The first 4 would have to go completely for me and many others. The other 6...well, I guess they are still common morals, only overstepping the boundaries is not really that bad anymore these days (though this also depends on which one...I'm pretty sure you still get jailtime for murder, for example).
I personally don't really see the need for moral guidelines like that. The ones independent of God and religion are pretty much common sense, and if you don't have that I don't think you will stick to guidelines set by society either.

 

[Silum]

Do you think, if the Ten Commandments were re-written to be PC in today's society, that they would change?

If they were rewritten to be PC...yes they would change. Umm...duh. How would they change? ...they would be more politically correct. I guess you want specifics, I suppose God would be taken out since PC means you have to accept everyones point of view. All that would remain are the commandments about loving your neighbour, theft, etc.

Do you think society recognizes them as legitimate moral guidelines anymore?

Are they legitimate moral guidelines? Yes. I suppose that will be wether or not you believe in the God that created them. Either you dont, in which case your obviously not going to follow them to any strict degree (even if you believe in most of what they say). Or you believe in the God that created them... In which case you believe that they are from God and that they result in a better world.

Either way, legitimate moral guidelines to society, NO. People who have faith yes. Not all of society, they never have and never will.

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

But having no other God? How many wars has THAT particular idea caused?

None.

The ten commandments were given to Moses for Gods people as they began to lose their way, not to hold against unbelievers.


How many wars were started over idiots who dont understand the bible?

 

[Flannen]

Cangel, I disagree with your point about not needing moral guidelines. I personally think that society does need moral guidelines. I don't necessarily believe that humans are born inherently bad (Hobbes philosophy) but I don't think that people have an intrinsic sense of right and wrong.

I don't know if this is what you're saying, so sorry if you're not, but I don't think moral guidelines should be removed just because people break them. Because not ALL people break them.

@Silum - I wish I could organise my brain in the way you do!! Haha.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

How many wars were started over idiots who dont understand the bible?

I once started counting and got to 17 - then I stopped for a drink and lost my place, so I didn't bother continuing.

 

[Harley]

None.

The ten commandments were given to Moses for Gods people as they began to lose their way, not to hold against unbelievers.

I agree. War, like the ones previously mentioned, aren't started because people disagree that there should be one God. It's just about which God...

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

Cangel, I disagree with your point about not needing moral guidelines. I personally think that society does need moral guidelines. I don't necessarily believe that humans are born inherently bad (Hobbes philosophy) but I don't think that people have an intrinsic sense of right and wrong.

That's what the law is for. Of course moral guidelines and law overlap at certain point (e.g. the killing again), but there's also a reason why they don't overlap at the remaining points, adultery for example.

 

[Flannen]

The law wouldn't exist if it wasn't for guidelines like these.

And I think that, maybe if they did overlap more, like adultery, then people wouldn't crap on each other as much as they do!

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

The law wouldn't exist if it wasn't for guidelines like these.

And I think that, maybe if they did overlap more, like adultery, then people wouldn't crap on each other as much as they do!

It wouldn't, but that's not the point. Obviously, some of these guidelines were very necessary. That's why they were put into this concrete you-have-to-abide form. But the otheres weren't, and I'm pretty sure there's also a reason for that. If they did overlap more, we wouldn't really have any personal freedom anymore.
There are just certain things that society can't really just regulate like that for everyone. People should, and have the right to, make their own decisions. And just because society tells you something is morally 'wrong', doesn't have to mean it's actually like that or everyone has to agree with that. I, for example, don't really see adultery as much of a deal.

 

[InsaneMystic]

Making the TC PC? What a strange thought. I guess quite a number of those who hold to the Commandments in their entirety strongly today would be the ones to not give a damn about PCness. (I could care less about PCness, too, for somewhat other reasons though.) I agree with the view that to even start "PCing them up", the references to the One God would have to go, which in itself would make the concept of the TC pretty much moot.

About the "needing moral guidelines", well, that's complicated. I don't know if others see it the way I do, but I quite sharply differentiate between morality and ethics, and I know that I fare better with an amoral stance than I ever did with morality. Morality, as I see it, is "considering something wrong because an authority (God, the state, your parents, whoever) says it's wrong"; ethics, in contrast, is "deciding whether or not a given action helps or hinders you to live the life you want, as the person you want to be, in a world worth living in". So morality requires nothing but obedience, while ethics need the philosophical leg-work to build up values to adhere to... or, polemically put: Morality = Ethics For Dummies.

Either way, there's a multitude of possible moralities or ethical systems, and I think it's good that there isn't a universal set of them, even though this means one system's virtue can be another system's vice.

Still, to someone like me, coming from a serious brush with solipsism in puberty, any kind of humane ethics (i.e., at the very least, one respecting basic universal human rights) still need a basis in faith in God... but that just shows that I, personally, am not fit to be an Atheist, at least as long as I'm unwilling to be a sociopath, too. (Not saying every Atheist is a psycho, just that I myself couldn't be one without the other. 😉 )

 

[Flannen]

It wouldn't, but that's not the point. Obviously, some of these guidelines were very necessary. That's why they were put into this concrete you-have-to-abide form. But the otheres weren't, and I'm pretty sure there's also a reason for that. If they did overlap more, we wouldn't really have any personal freedom anymore.
There are just certain things that society can't really just regulate like that for everyone. People should, and have the right to, make their own decisions. And just because society tells you something is morally 'wrong', doesn't have to mean it's actually like that or everyone has to agree with that. I, for example, don't really see adultery as much of a deal.

Really? I think adultery is utterly selfish and in reality, completely unnecessary. It devastates marriages and tears families apart.

If you don't want to be with someone, then don't be with them. There is absolutely no need for adultery/cheating at all. If you can even think about being with someone else when you are in a relationship then you should NOT be with that person.

So you wouldn't mind being cheated on?! I personally would be torn apart if it was to happen to me.

IM - I get what you're saying about the difference between morality and ethics but I think I see them as differing in scale. I think morality is more about you as an individual and your own moral compass, and ethics as being a much wider social, global set of morals (for want of a better word 😀)

 

[Friendly Lurker]

Cangel, I disagree with your point about not needing moral guidelines. I personally think that society does need moral guidelines. I don't necessarily believe that humans are born inherently bad (Hobbes philosophy) but I don't think that people have an intrinsic sense of right and wrong.

I don't know if this is what you're saying, so sorry if you're not, but I don't think moral guidelines should be removed just because people break them. Because not ALL people break them.

I think people must have some kind of sense of right and wrong since it's quite beneficial for the survival of the species. 😛 That doesn't mean moral guidelines aren't needed though, I'm just not sure if the Bible is the best place to look for them!

 

[Flannen]

I guess, it's because I am, and was bought up a Christian, but I just think that a lot of what the Bible teaches are valuable moral guidelines, such as 'treat others as you wish to be treated' and the like.

But, I'm fully aware that plenty of people who haven't read the Bible and aren't Christians are still 'good' people, so I can understand why not everyone thinks the Bible is the be-all and end-all of right and wrong.

I think that now people have some sense of right and wrong because today's moral compass is kind of universal, I think I was referring to 'back in the day', if you know what I mean. Although I fully understand if you don't! 😛

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

Really? I think adultery is utterly selfish and in reality, completely unnecessary. It devastates marriages and tears families apart.

If you don't want to be with someone, then don't be with them. There is absolutely no need for adultery/cheating at all. If you can even think about being with someone else when you are in a relationship then you should NOT be with that person.

So you wouldn't mind being cheated on?! I personally would be torn apart if it was to happen to me.

I can't really say how I would feel about it personally, it would depend on my whole state of mind at that point, but no, generally I wouldn't mind. Actually, I find it a lot more wrong to just 'chain' people together and expect them to only be with each other for the rest of their lives.
And it doesn't really tear families apart etc. either imo; according to you it would be right to divorce if you feel like you want to be with someone else (as well). THAT would tear apart a family and devastate a marriage.

 

[Flannen]

I can't really say how I would feel about it personally, it would depend on my whole state of mind at that point, but no, generally I wouldn't mind. Actually, I find it a lot more wrong to just 'chain' people together and expect them to only be with each other for the rest of their lives.
And it doesn't really tear families apart etc. either imo; according to you it would be right to divorce if you feel like you want to be with someone else (as well). THAT would tear apart a family and devastate a marriage.

I don't think you can call it 'chain' if people want to be together. I guess I'm just of a more 'traditional' view about things. No I don't think it would be right to divorce if you feel you want to be with someone else, I would say don't rush into a marriage if you don't think you want to be that person for the rest of your life, then you won't need to get a divorce because you wouldn't have married the wrong person. But as this is, in today's society, nothing but an ideal, then there is no option other than divorce and I would be stupid to argue otherwise. I guess I think a divorce when and if you realise your love for your partner has dwindled, before you cheat is better.

Trust me, adultery does tear families apart. I haven't experienced it myself, but several of my closest friends have suffered awfully from this experience.

 

[CotA]

Do you think, if the Ten Commandments were re-written to be PC in today's society, that they would change? Would any be thrown out or added?

They should be changed to:

Commandment 1 - Shut the hell up.

Commandment 2 - I can't do anything about the sun.

Commandment 3 -There are no jolly ranchers, they are all gone.

Commandment 4 - When we pass a billboard, do NOT read it out loud.

 

[Revolver]

In my opinion, having a set of guidelines to lay out (especially to the very young) can be a beneficial thing. In any case, they are guidelines and not laws, for a reason. People obviously break them. They are merely ideals, ways in which a person should aim to conduct his or herself. And while you could argue about the having no other Gods commandment (unless you are a Christian, in which case it's pretty concrete), most of the guidelines presented in the ten commandments aren't bad rules to try and live by. Generally, one should have some respect for their parents. I realize there are people who's parents are legitmately terrible and deserve neither honor nor respect, but the average person should definitely keep in mind the many things their parents have done for them. I don't think there will be much debate about theft or murder so I see no need to address them. The one about not worshipping false idols I think makes sense even outside of the religious context. You shouldn't be so focused on any one thing that you neglect more important matters, etc. I'm going to have to disagree with Cangal and say I can't get behind adultery. While I wouldn't outright condemn a person for committing it (I do have several friends who've cheated at some point in their lives), I do see it as a selfish act. I can't say that I see it as chaining people up, because people generally have the right to choose for themselves whether or not they want to marry. And if you do want to marry, I think you're agreeing to that little clause you are not to be allowed to see other women (or men, as the case may be). And while one person might not see it as a big deal, the other partner's attitude could easily be very different. It can be very hurtful to people. I know it would be a dealbreaker for me. If I got cheated on, that would pretty much be it. End of relationship. It shatters trust, and says a great deal about the other person's concern for your feelings. It's become so acceptable, because people are almost predisposed to not take it seriously in this day and age. The commandment about the sabbath? Okay, that one has little meaning outside of a strictly Christian context.